I ask this question, because we are seeing a lack of unity with things that are of great importance to believers. The politics of believers; the doctrinal beliefs of believers, these are out of sink not in unity. We are divided over basically what is truth, when instead Jesus prayed for our unity.
“In an open letter concerning the so called insurrection (without weapons) at the capital building:
The letter’s authors call on ministry leaders in the U.S. to be vocal about their stance against Christian nationalism. “We urge faith leaders to engage pastorally with those who support or sympathize with these groups, and make it clear that our churches are not neutral about these matters: we are on the side of democracy, equality for all people, anti-racism, and the common good of all people.”*
Over 500 pastors had signed this letter. The letter makes clear that they come from different political and faith or doctrinal perspectives. My guess would be that none of them condemn from their pulpits the sex trade trafficking, nor the Abortion industry, nor the open border policy leading to the drug trade increases in this country. They can unite for the condemnation of patriotic gathering, but make no mention of ANTFA and BLM involvement in the incident, which looked nothing like the past summer riots.
I personally believe that scriptures relates to us the fact that Jesus’ prayer for real unity in His body will be answered, but that it will take Great Tribulation to actually bring us as believers together. Now I will attempt to show you from scripture why that likely is the case. Please bear with me. First we will Consider a scripture we have looked at before, but you, I believe, will be surprised at where it leads us. Jesus when speaking to the seven churches, made this statement:
Revelation 2:22 ‘Behold, I will throw her on a bed [of sickness,] and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds. 23 ‘And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds. (NASB1995)
The questions that must be asked as a result of this statement by our Lord, I think, are too important for us to continue to just overlook them.
Why has Jesus referred to these churches as being plural rather than singular at the very time when He apparently throws Jezebel and those acting with her, representing evil, into great Tribulation? These churches are those, who are according to Jesus, to be learning from this act upon her of Great Tribulation. Then; If these churches were to be Raptured as one Church or bride before the Great Tribulation, would they not be referred to as the church or the bride in these verses?
In addition Jesus, here in this verse, tells us that our deeds are important to Him, and that they will be rewarded. And it seems that He let’s us know that Great Tribulation will have meaning for the churches before the Bride will be ready. He speaks of them as churches plural rather than The church, which would imply the prayed for unity. He also gives what I believe are a couple of important clues in the Revelation, which add significance to the timing of our rewards, and these both occur at the end of the Tribulation, when He says:
Revelation 19:6 Then I heard [something] like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns. 7 “Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” (NASB1995)
This passage explicitly brings the bride into unity at the time of our Lord’s reign, not seven years before it. There is one other confirming passage and it concerns the rewarding for our deeds in Revelation 2:23. Listen:
Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. (NASB1995)
By this statement I believe He is telling us that all men are to be judged after His coming to earth. A pre-Trib rapture suggests that none of this as stated by our Lord is true. Aside from the many scriptural examples that I give you in my blog posts I can prove otherwise nothing to you. But it is these words from scripture that I have been allowed by Him to write concerning that He will actually prove to us when the actual Great Tribulation occurs; for then all will come to understand.
The only other point that I would make, not that I think that it is needed, but it is relative to our subject, and would concern the promises made in scripture to those who receive Christ as savior. For we, nowhere within Scripture, are taught to expect a different outcome for those who go through Tribulation or even Great Tribulation; than for those who do not. Our promise is always the same for choosing Christ: that we will not experience God’s wrath, for it is paid for on the cross, and there is no scripture which would equate wrath with Tribulation or even Great Tribulation. I speak elsewhere in a separate blog post of what is meant by the hour of testing for the whole world.
Before we leave this point. Recently I was challenged to consider Revelation 6:17: Listen: for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” (NASB1995)
This verse I was told makes the tribulation to follow it in the book of Revelation and is equal to the wrath proclaimed in this verse, but do these verses lead us to that conclusion?
Listen to the verses preceding this verse: Revelation 6:15 Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; 16 and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; (NASB1995)
This is clear that every man both slave and free (which means every man present on earth at the time of this Revelation by God of Himself and His Lamb) will hide themselves from this stated presence of the Lord, so does this happen before the Great Tribulation rather than at its ending? Would teaching this to be happening either before or even early on in the Tribulation not contradict what is shown to be happening on the earth in the events following these verses?
The question in Vs 17 itself should tell us when wrath comes: “who is able to stand?” The question is rhetorical; for no one can stand before God’s wrath. When it is poured out it ends the mortal life of all who are present, and who are not excluded from it for God’s own reason.
Study to show yourself approved.
Quote taken from:
• https://churchleaders.com/news/391005-open-letter-christian-nationalism.html
And Then Messiah Shall Come 
I see you’re still at work trying your best to cause division . Like a pyromaniac asking if fires will ever come to an end.
The religion industry can only survive if there is division, it thrives on answering questions nobody asks and creating problems where there are none and then selling solutions to made up problems.
There is unity in the body of Christ, you might want to rethink what the church is.
Hope you’re doing well and staying healthy Jerry.
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Unity will put the organized church out of business… hasten the Day Lord!
Affluence and our self-centered culture have made such an experience rare and even considered to be obsolete and uncouth. Instead of just being “disciples” we have become “disciples of” something other than Christ. We have substituted the central thing which unites His disciples and differentiates them from the tares. The Spirit of Unity can only join the pure with the pure or as the Prophet Ezekiel declares “bone to His Bone”. Discipleship is the path to pure motives and holy living. It is the pure in heart who “see God”. In the seeing of Him we are struck with a Love so powerful, so omnipotent and so pure that men quake in its atmosphere. Truth is no longer a statement, it is a life, it is a way and it is the signature of God being evidenced within the lives of those who are becoming His.
“By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another”
John 13:35
BT
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Amen and Amen Brian
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Well said
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Man, now that was worth reading. Thanks brother for your wisdom, and the comment.
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I think you are mostly correct in your statement. But at the same time you are also a confirmation of sorts as to the point that I am trying to make, because you see things very much differently than most of your brothers within the body of Christ. I too see things differently. You and I see things differently. One day we will all know and see the truth with a like mind. Thanks for your comments Stephen.
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Where we differ is on worldly issues and how we participate in the affairs of men.
I think we agree on much concerning the Kingdom of heaven.
Blessings
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Appreciate you Stephen
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There have been differences of opinion among believers on doctrine as well as politics since the beginning of the church. I subscribe to the wisdom of St Augustine: “In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.” The list of essentials is short. Too many of us major on minor non-essentials.
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You could be right, but I’m not positive that we can even agree today on what is essential, and what is not. Thanks for the comment Bob.
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I think we can look to the life of Jesus to determine what’s essential. When I see Christian leaders and self-proclaimed prophets becoming involved in the current political drama, I’m reminded of the political situation in Israel during Jesus’ life. They were ruled by Rome, they were poor and heavily taxed, and there was plenty of corruption and heresy within the Jewish rabbinical hierarchy. Jesus never stooped low enough to become involved in political nonsense. He had a much higher purpose and task at hand.
He met everyone at the point of their need, loved them, and offered them a better life through a change of heart. Too many Christians today are focused on judging and condemning others rather than showing them a better way through love. As Brian said so eloquently: “Truth is not a statement, but a life” demonstrating the “signature of God” in the spirit of John13:35.
What is the fruit of that kind of life? It is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. That is what we should pursue above all else.
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In Paul’s day…
Jerusalem was becoming under siege, the Christians were being put to death by the thousands, Nero was going off the deep end and Paul in his epistles mentions none of these things. The cry of the Apostle Paul “For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified” Until that becomes the full cry of our hearts the corruption of politics in and outside of the Church will continue to plague us.
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be…?”
When our hearts are focused upon Him alone nothing else will cloud our vision.
BT
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Love your wisdom brother.
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I can’t fault what you’re saying. But let me ask is doctrine truth? And is it important? Was Jesus’ interaction with the rulers in Israel when He stated that they were of their father the devil, totally in keeping with what you state here. And I’m not critiquing just asking your opinion. I think either you or Brian stated that we are to speak the truth in love. If people we as citizens vote to represent us do things politically that are Antichrist should we point that out or not? I appreciate very much Brian’s ministry, but none of us have the exact same calling in ministry. Would you agree with that? Thanks for commenting Bob.
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Amen!! I couldn’t have said it any better Brian.
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Jerry I agree that all of us are gifted differently and will therefore have different ministries. What Brian and I are both suggesting, I think, is that there is an overarching purpose that should motivate us and we should be careful about judging others who sin differently than we do. Judgment is reserved for God. In terms of the law or “doctrine,,” Jesus said that the ENTIRE law can be distilled into the one great commandment—love God and love others. Divisions in the church have most often been precipitated by people giving too much emphasis minor doctrinal concerns in the name of TRUTH.. Those squabbles make Christians look bad in the eyes of unbelievers.
The fact that neither Jesus nor Paul got involved in or even commented on the political concerns of their day, which were much more oppressive than we experience now, should inform our actions. Our purpose is to show unbelievers a better way to live, primarily through our example—a life that produces the fruit of the Spirit. Loving others rarely, if ever, includes condemnation. Instead, we should demonstrate God’s love by how we treat them and meet their immediate needs. I would suggest that no one cares how much we know until they know how much we care. The gospel, the message of good news, is that God loves us and desires an intimate relationship with us. It is offered to us by His grace, through a response of faith by us.
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Appreciate your thoughts brother.
Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.
1 Timothy 4:16 NASB1995
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Again, Israel is the number-one signal to watch to determine the lateness of the prophetic hour. The developing crisis is a reminder to, as our Lord commands, keep looking up in anticipation of His sudden coming for all who believe in His death, burial, and resurrection for their salvation (Luke 21:28).
This is taken from the Terry James Prophecy blog article titled the next crisis. This is one of those minor differences which could make a major impact on many believers if we are in the times that Brian and I believe that we could be. A truth error can make a Huge difference depending on the timing of its teaching.
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Jerry, I understand your fascination with the end times and your efforts to identify signs of Jesus’ imminent return. For me, that is majoring in a minor. “No one knows the day or the hour.” Every generation has seen signs that convinced them the time was near. I prefer to devote myself to living a life that assures I am ready for His return if it happens before I die.
I also want to take as many people with me as possible, especially my family and friends. I have never convinced anyone to accept Christ by judging them and condemning their lifestyle. The natural tendency of any person is to push back on that and get defensive, rejecting anything else I have to share. What has been effective is having something in my own life that they don’t have but is appealing to them. For example, when they see the joy I have in my life, in spite of the health challenges I’ve had, and the kind of relationship Betty and I have, they want to know why. They are then receptive to the gospel.
So the truth that matters to me is the promise of a good life NOW and in the afterlife for those of us who are Christians. Sharing that truth with others by loving them and offering hope is my higher purpose and task. So I hope you aren’t resentful of my lack of interest in your speculation about “developing crises.”
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Well stated. I have no problem with what you say, I began research and pursuit of scriptures answers to end time signs, because every generation since the mid 1800’s has looked for what you called here the imminent return, but that return was not then imminent because the scriptural signs were not there, and frankly are still not. But today’s political actions could easily bring them about, and likely will. I don’t set dates, just want expectations to be based on scripture. As to our witness. I have friends who are some agnostic; some even Atheists; one couple even Buddhist, I neither discuss politics or end time scriptures with them, but we have discussed Jesus. I have yet to win them, because my place is to witness, and God’s is to save. They have my book, and should end time events progress as they are, and converge in their lifetime they will have access to the answers they will need to find eternal life. Thanks for your passion and comment. Keep doing what you are called to do. That is your obedience to God. Love you both.
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Jerry, the only other thing I’ll say about our witness is this: What we do speaks so loudly people can’t hear what we say. How we demonstrate our love for others matters. Empathy and grace go a long way toward making our witness effective. I measure my spiritual growth by how much more my life exhibits the fruit of the Spirit from one year to the next. To me, that is the most effective witness I have.
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I certainly agree, but what is most important to me is not so much how I measure up in my own thinking, but in my conscience when the Holy Spirit is either confirming or condemning what I do or have done. God has this way of telling us when we have failed Him with our disobedience to Him. Don’t know about you, but with me my inner man becomes very distraught when I fail God and or others.
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“For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person” 1 Corinthians 5:12-13
Give men enough space and enough time they ultimately twist the truth of God to something that has no relevance to the truth.
It is not the church’s job to judge the world, its leaders nor its ways… We are to judge ourselves that we allow not the uncleanness, the corruption, the greed and lust for power within our own ranks. The church turns a blind eye to its own issues and then attacks the world which is the height of hypocrisy.
We are to be the Light of the World by how we carry ourselves, by how deep and pure our love is for one another. We have men and women unashamedably filled with greed, pride and all manner of corruption within how dare we accuse the world without. We have “church buildings” on every corner each in completion with one another and we turn a blind eye to our own poverty of heart and spirit. Jesus declared they would KNOW we are Christians by the love and the unity we hold for one another and what do we present to this fallen dark world? A church filled with the egos of men each propagating their own “brand” of Christian rhetoric, all the while failing to minister the truth which brings the unity of the faith. We have an organized church which profits from the strife and division rather than being broken over its existence. It is time for us to repent! We have nothing to say to the world nor it is not our place… We are here to judge within ourselves and to root out the wickedness from our midst that they would SEE our righteousness and turn to the Lord. (Isaiah 62:2)
Our call is to minister righteousness to the Church and to understand the true call of ministry… 1. to perfect the church 2. To see that every member develops into their own ministration 3. UNTO the Unity of the faith (Ephesians 4:11-13)! Any ministry which is not in the pursuit of this has failed in their ministration. The Judgment of God is going to fall on the hirelings, the self seeking and the hypocrites and His Day is upon us.
Turn your heart to His Church… the world is already judged. Let us consider one another to provoke unto love and good works, let us spend our lives in the ministration of a righteousness which will produce a humble and pure people who will stand against the evil within and esteem each other in the power and the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.
BT
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Not angry just passionate!
BT
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We can often be too hard on ourselves, “forgetting” that God’s grace is available to us as well. My motivation for obeying God is gratitude for his grace toward me, not fear of judgment or punishment.
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We love Jesus because He loves us first.
“Greater love has no man this this, that He lay down His life for His friends.”
Jesus Christ IS the greatest life. A profound Truth.
Well said Bob.
Blessings
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Your motivation should not be fear. You are correct, for you have accepted His grace, but for the one who has not and is not following Him, fear is for them the beginning of wisdom.
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I have to say that fear being the “beginning of wisdom” or what precipitates acceptance of Christ as savior and lord isn’t my experience at all. I would cite as an example my work in the KAIROS prison ministry. Inmates weren’t incarcerated because they feared punishment. The possibility of prison was not a deterrent to their criminal behavior. What they responded to was the unconditional love we lavished on them during our weekend programs, something most of them had never experienced in their lives before. Everything we did to show them God’s love motivated them to change. Of course we had an army of people praying before, during, and after the weekend. God is the one who changed their hearts. David Wilkerson (The Cross and the Switchblade) impacted gangs and drug addicts in New York City with a message of unconditional love as well. I personally have never known anyone who responded to the gospel from a place of fear. I won’t deny that it’s possible but I think it’s rare. In my own life, the message of judgment and the wrath of God in the Southern Baptist denomination drove me away from church and God. It was only later, when I heard a message based primarily in the grace of God, that I responded to the gospel. That’s why gratitude, not fear, motivates my obedience.
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A person coming to the Lord obviously experiences many encounters which have an impact on his/her life. I went to church as well for 27 years before I found the Lord in my life. I would not relinquish any of that experience because it made me who I am today. I feel that if you thought about it you to would see some of the same in your own experience. If I had not first feared God, I don’t think that I would have ever understood His act of love and just what it meant to be forgiven of such a great weight. Christ took the wrath which was intended for my transgressions and paid for them by way of His suffering for me and any one else who is able to come to see it. But had I not known what I deserved I would have never understood the extent of the act of love and grace paid on my behalf. It was not someone else’s love toward me that awakened me to His love. It was all God as you point out in the end.
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I won’t deny the role of the fear of God in your life. I am simply saying that it doesn’t match my experience or what I’ve heard from others or seen in their lives. I personally did not start from a place where I feared God. I feared a lot of things in my youth—the wrath of my father, bullies at school, and later, the fear that I might not be able to support myself financially. My response to God started from an understanding of His grace. I have many experiences I regret in life but I agree that all of them contributed to making me the person I am today. The fact that our path to God was different doesn’t mean that either is wrong, just that we’re different. What matters is that we both accepted God’s invitation to have a loving relationship with Him and we now live for Him.
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Amen
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