Clement of Alexandria
“Not a great thinker in the 3rd century , but he brought Daniel’s 70 weeks into the discussion.”
Clement had said that the weeks already happened in the 1st century. Christians were told to flee when you see armies surrounding Jerusalem in Luke.
Agustin of Hippo. “THE GREATEST THINKER OF ALL OF EARLY HISTORY” — some say “all of history”.
But was he? He says that everything that Daniel was taught concerning the 70 weeks was (past tense) fulfilled in Christ. So let’s consider:
15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place ( let the reader understand), 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from [r]the sky, and the powers of [s]the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His [t]elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Matthew 24:15-16,29-31 NASB
Mark, in his rendering of this included a gathering from earth as well. Is this the rapture?
The above and what is to follow all came forth from a discussion about The possible 70 AD fulfillment of Matthew 24. What went before as well as what follows was my contribution to that discussion.
Ok, I listened to what is being said, but I must say that it is extremely difficult to reconcile an understanding that Matthew 24’s teaching must make a connection of the 70 ad destruction of Jerusalem with what Jesus calls the Great Tribulation which will precede His Coming and His gathering of His elect.
This would also mean that Paul’s teaching which teaching preceded 70 ad and concerned the resurrection to follow Christ’s Coming, must have been speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem as the abomination or the time of Antichrist’s rule. Some of you believe that Antichrist is modern day Catholicism. It wasn’t even begun in 70 AD.
And, Doesn’t this mean that Christ has already returned then, if we are now ruling with Him, as He rules through His church? Evil men in Revelation hide themselves from His appearing — Listen:
I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. The sky was split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. Then the kings of the earth and the great men and the commanders and the rich and the strong and every slave and free man hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains; and they * said to the mountains and to the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” Revelation 6:12-17 NASB
Here is Matthew 24’s rendering of that same event.
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from [r]the sky, and the powers of [s]the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His [t]elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
Matthew 24:29-31 NASB
How can we say that this has already happened? But then if 70 ad was the only destruction made possible for Israel, or was “the Tribulation” for them of which Christ spoke, How can we say that it hasn’t? Yet there is a nation again called Israel made up of Jews and Gentiles as it was then.
If Christ gathered all of His elect at that time just where do any of us fit in? If the resurrection that occurred at that time were simply spiritual and ongoing just how will this age of humanity which is stated to have actual last days end? Daniel was told that he was to rest until this time of Jerusalem’s siege was complete. If it was the 70 ad seize, His rest is over. Daniel was told that at that time men would run to and fro and that knowledge would be greatly increased even as has happened only in our generation.
If Revelation is all fulfilled, what exactly are we looking for in the future? If we are to understand the times and seasons just what is our time and season?
It is obvious that in Luke 21, Jesus outlines the destruction of Jerusalem in 70ad, and it is obvious that that destruction was to lead to the dispersion of the Jews that we see even in part today, which also is prophesied to end with their final regathering. But it is also obvious that we have not seen the redemption of these bodies from mortality unto immortality, and we have not seen the deliverance from sin and death promised in these verses. Rightly dividing scripture is a key to understanding prophecy. How will Jesus’ words be fulfilled? — you will not see Me again until you say blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. How would that occur if Jerusalem were to be still trodden down of the Gentile. Armageddon has not yet occurred. God’s wrath has not yet been poured out on the worshipers of the beast. Revelation though covering The history of the saints, believers in Israel’s savior Messiah and ours as Gentile believers — one new man; still must also cover the end of days as promised to Daniel in Daniel 12. Jesus will return to a Jerusalem no longer trodden down of the Gentiles as King over the nations. Did not happen in 70 AD. In fact it was Gentiles who destroyed it.
Behold, the day of the Lord is coming, Cruel, with fury and burning anger, To make the land a desolation; And He will exterminate its sinners from it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not flash forth their light; The sun will be dark when it rises And the moon will not shed its light. Thus I will punish the world for its evil And the wicked for their iniquity; I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless. I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold And mankind than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, And the earth will be shaken from its place At the fury of the Lord of hosts In the day of His burning anger. And it will be that like a hunted gazelle, Or like sheep with none to gather them, They will each turn to his own people, And each one flee to his own land. Anyone who is found will be thrust through, And anyone who is captured will fall by the sword. Their little ones also will be dashed to pieces Before their eyes; Their houses will be plundered And their wives ravished. Behold, I am going to stir up the Medes against them, Who will not value silver or take pleasure in gold. And their bows will mow down the young men, They will not even have compassion on the fruit of the womb, Nor will their eye pity children. And Babylon, the beauty of kingdoms, the glory of the Chaldeans’ pride, Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It will never be inhabited or lived in from generation to generation; Nor will the Arab pitch his tent there, Nor will shepherds make their flocks lie down there.
Isaiah 13:9-20 NASB
“Whereas you have been forsaken and hated With no one passing through, I will make you an everlasting pride, A joy from generation to generation.
Pour out Your wrath on the nations that do not know You And on the families that do not call Your name; For they have devoured Jacob; They have devoured him and consumed him And have laid waste his habitation.
In that day it will be said to Jerusalem: “ Do not be afraid, O Zion; Do not let your hands fall limp. “The Lord your God is in your midst, A victorious warrior. He will exult over you with joy, He will be quiet in His love, He will rejoice over you with shouts of joy. “I will gather those who grieve about the appointed feasts— They came from you, O Zion; The reproach of exile is a burden on them. “Behold, I am going to deal at that time With all your oppressors, I will save the lame And gather the outcast, And I will turn their shame into praise and renown In all the earth.
Zephaniah 3:16-19 NASB
These things are going to happen. Perhaps not as I see them; perhaps not as you see them, but certainly they will happen, and 70 AD could not be their fulfillment. It certainly could be a forerunner of things to come. It certainly set the stage for the dispersion of the Jews who had not come to their Messiah. But today the stage seems to be setting for a more complete fulfillment. But is it imminent? No, there is still much prophecy to be fulfilled, and probably much that we do not yet know.