Tim, I’m back. I am one who appreciates Jesus’ inclusivity. Why, because I too am a sinner who needs forgiveness. I even believe that sexual sin can be forgiven, no matter what it’s nature; but in this post you make a great leap from Jesus accepting homosexuals because He is inclusive of all sinners, to homosexuality not being a sin. And therein is the problem with homosexuals, who’s sin God calls an abomination. I can readily accept the homosexual into the fellowship of believers who just like the adulterers come in and seek God’s forgiveness and sincerely want God’s help in conquering their sin. Both are in the bondage to sin, and only God through His grace can change that fact. He can take a sinner and transform them from bondage to freedom, but if I say I am not a sinner as do many homosexuals today concerning this sin; then God cannot Help Them, because there is no repentance.
There are those who say that repentance is not necessary for forgiveness, but I am not one of those. Jesus makes many promises in chapters 2 and 3 of Revelation to overcomers, He makes none that I can find in scripture to those who refuse to acknowledge their sin. An overcomer must acknowledge that he/she has something to overcome.
When I began to consider whether God accepted gays, I started studying. One advocate stated definitively that Jesus himself accepted gays. This was very encouraging and I listened eagerly for the evidence because I couldn’t think of any scriptures to support the statement.
Fortunately, an opponent pushed her on the question. ‘How do you know?’, they asked. I waited for scriptural support, but instead the advocate responded: ‘He was inclusive.’
Since she supplied no proof-texts, I was unconvinced; but I continued to deliberate on it.
Are There Accepted Gays in the Bible?
Some advocates identify a gay man in Jesus’ ministry. Matthew 8 tells the story of a centurion who asked Jesus to heal his paralyzed servant, and Jesus healed him. The issue hinges on the fact that the word translated ‘servant’ can also mean a youth who is the male lover of an older man, a common…
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And Then Messiah Shall Come 
Hi Jerry, it is good to hear from you! Thanks for the re-blog!
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Hi Jerry, I read most of the article that you linked here, and here are my thoughts…
It seemed to me, as though homosexuality was treated as no big deal of a sin.
And I’m here to tell you that homosexuality is disgusting wickedness against God to the extreme. It mocks God in a most arrogant way. It is wholly satanic.
Everyone knows about Sodom and Gomorrah, but few people reference Romans chapter 1 which is a new testament record of God’s feelings about homosexuality (among other sins).
And the author of that post said that he didn’t believe in hell, and I stopped reading there.
This person has so little discernment that further reading of his words would have been a waste of my time.
I also believe that a homosexual can be saved. And for anyone to be saved, they have to come to the Lord Jesus Christ desiring His forgiveness, (which has the inclusive desire for His help to turn from one’s sins).
But where I may differ from your beliefs is…
I believe that a person can come to Christ and receive His righteousness as a free gift when they have believed on Him as their Savior.
(Not receive His righteousness after they’ve turned from some quantity of sins, or have “done” something to prove they deserve to receive His righteousness).
That’s not my belief at all. I believe that righteousness really is a free gift by the obedience of one (Romans 5.17-19).
When someone has really believed in Christ, He is formed in them, (Galatians 4.19), they “rest” in Him, (Hebrews chapter 4).
That’s my take on the matter.
I know that you’ll agree with some of my beliefs, and disagree with others, but that’s okay.
I’m your friend who loves you. 🙂
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I started to write an answer before but before I finished it got lost. So here goes
Lee, thanks for the comment. I realize that no man can change himself, only God can make him righteous in His timing. But one can want deliverance from a particular sin for various reasons including an attempt at pleasing God even before saved, but only God can and will make him righteous, and change him eventually in His own timing once he is saved. I do however believe that sinners do at times change their ways before ever being saved. But even those good works are as filthy rags because they are not performed out of love for Jesus and what He has done for them.
As for Repentance, it can really only come after God calls one to repent. Jesus says no man can come to me except the Father call him. So repentance is a turn to follow Christ. There may be an accompanying sorrow for heretofore following after our own sinful desires, but in my opinion one would also experience that inner peace of which you speak.
But there is a question that I will pose for you. Jesus speaks of the different soils upon which the word falls. One of those soils is fertile and eventually produced a plant with fruit, one of them produces a plant which is choked out before its fruit can ripen. Listen:
3 “Listen to this! Behold, the sower went out to sow; 7 Other seed fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked it, and it yielded no crop. 8 Other seeds fell into the good soil, and as they grew up and increased, they yielded a crop and produced thirty, sixty, and a hundredfold.”
Mark 4:3,7-8 NASB
Jesus further explains the seed of verse 7. 18 And others are the ones on whom seed was sown among the thorns; these are the ones who have heard the word, 19 but the worries of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful. Mark 4:18-19 NASB
My question I guess is this. Did the soil which took the seed (the word) and yet allowed the cares to make it become unfruitful — did he ever just believe that there was nothing more for him to do with this word than to just accept it. How does this relate to Jesus admonition to abide in Him. Who is responsible to keep the weeds out? When John says in his gospel:
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:12-13 NASB
Was this power given to the one who allowed the weeds to come in, and it just was not used. Is that an application of this verse?
Lee, I believe that both you and I take the word seriously. That’s good I think. Yet these verses jump out at me but not so much at you. You tend to see the verse like the one you used in Hebrews on rest. But I see this rest as a future promise. Like what Daniel was told. But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age.” Daniel 12:13 NASB, but not only Daniel. Paul also told the Thessalonians: in 2 Thessalonians 1:7 much the same thing. That this rest comes when Jesus returns. Yet Paul goes on and in verse 11. Says that he is praying that these same men be worthy of their calling. Why do you suppose this is. I can only conclude that it is because it is not yet time to rest. It is our time to til the soil or take part in the battle against the faith and bear fruit.
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Hi Jerry, good mornin to you my friend.
Allow me to first say that I appreciate you very much as my friend. You and I can have these sort of discussions with genuine kindness in our hearts because we hold no malice towards each other. And I give all credit to God for His ongoing work in our hearts to work all things for good. Praise God 🙂
Let me please first clarify something I said in my comment above. (The part where I mentioned above about someone not doing something to prove they deserve to receive His righteousness).
I fully stand by what I said, that someone doesn’t receive His righteousness when they have proved that they deserve it. (Emphasis on the word “deserve,” because no one deserved His righteousness ). However, I should have also stated that person can demonstrate that they believe God, and that demonstration of their belief in God can be something very significant. Like when James referenced Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice Isaac, or Rahab’s cooperation with the Israeli spies.
Okay, now that I’ve clarified that, I want to reply to your comment.
(I see) the people referenced in the parable of the souls who fell away, as being those persons who Christ was not yet formed in them, (Galatians 4.19). They have varied reasons that they fell away, but (I see them as shallow professors of faith who were never really born again, and they had not ever entered into His rest).And
And I’ll tell you something similar… I don’t believe that Simon the sorcerer was ever saved. Because people can go through motions that resemble a genuine Christian, but even though they did and claimed something that a real Christian does, doesn’t mean that they were genuinely born again by the Spirit of God. I don’t intend to try to prove that Simon wasn’t saved, but I just don’t believe that he was. I think he had some money-making on his mind. But hey, I’m not God, I’m not judging the man, I am just giving you my analysis of what I think was going in based on what I read.
That ought to do it on this subject for me. There’s nothing more for me to say here about all of this.
But just please remember that I love you my friend.
All glory to the risen Lord Jesus Christ Who loves us.
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Hey Jerry, (and whoever else reads this), there was some spelling errors in my comment, like “souls” should have been “soils,” etc . But my device substituted words while I was writing that I wasn’t aware of at that time.
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I’m not good at this, but I’ll see if I can edit it if you like.
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It’s not necessary, but I appreciate your offer.
Thank you. 😀
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Thanks Lee, your thinking is once saved always saved, a form of Baptist Calvinism. My entire family came up through that camp. Good people.
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Thank you Jerry for your kindness my friend.
I definitely believe in once saved, always saved.
But I’m not baptist or calvinistic. (But I understand what you are saying). 🙂
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Homosexuality is still an abomination, but homos can still be saved – if, like everyone else with other sins, there is a willingness for repentance. I confess (and I’ve only ever told one other person this) to being bisexual – and I’m far from proud of it. I’m 100% opposed to homosexuality, gay marriage, etc. Even if I myself struggle with some of those feelings.
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I fully understand J-M, sexual sin is something that every man has had to cry out to God for mercy and forgiveness.
God grant your people who are crying out to you victory over this area of our lives in Jesus name. Especially bless J-M today and every day with your power to overcome in Yeshua’s name. Amen.
Thanks for your comment J-M, God looks for men and women with a contrite heart. Bless you brother.
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Amen. Thanks. God bless you too.
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