In this section of the site Tribulation Rising: located on tribulationrisingcom.fatcow.com, within the article Matthew24 and the Rapture, is a list of their verses that they say speak not of the Second Coming, but of the Rapture. There is a separate list of Second Coming verses, but the list that I am duplicating here is their Rapture verse list.
I am going to list every verse for you that they list. I will number them and speak to each of them by number. There are 26 Passages of scripture to examine. This will be a long article. His article on this section is probably the length of one chapter in my book. If you are serious about wanting to know God’s truth on this subject, then I suggest you read my articles as they are posted about Tribulation Rising on this my site as well as their own articles on their site. You need both sides of the debate in order to determine what is Scripture’s truth. Remember Scripture God’s Word and only God’s Word is Truth. My words are only true if they align with God’s. What we are looking for here is are these verses evidence of a pre-Tribulation Rapture, not just the Rapture. The Rapture is real, the timing of when it is to occur is what is needed in our day, a day that grows more evil. There is a subtitle deception growing all around us. The Tribulation is truly rising, but what will that mean for those who are alive at that time? Will it be escape, or endurance?
THEIR LIST OF RAPTURE VERSES POSTED TO PROVE THE RAPTURE A SEPARATE EVENT FROM THE SECOND COMING.
1. John 14: 1-3
2. Rom. 8:19
3. 1 Cor. 1:7-8
4. 1 Cor. 15:51-53
5. 1Cor. 16:22
6. Phil. 3:20-21
7. Phil. 4:5
8. Col. 3:4
9. 1 Thess. 1:10
10. 1 Thess. 2:19
11. 1 Thess. 4:13-18
12. 1 Thess. 5:9
13. 1 Thess. 5:23
14. 2 Thess. 2:1
15. 1 Tim. 6:14
16. 2 Tim. 4:1
17. 2 Tim. 4:8
18. Titus 2:13
19. Heb. 9:28
20. James 5:7-9
21. 1 Pet. 7,13
22. 1 Pet. 5:4
23. 1 Jn. 2:28, 3:2
24. Jude 21
25. Rev. 2:25
26. Rev. 3:10
Let us begin:
1. JOHN 14: 1-3. This is the promise of our Lord to prepare a place for us and come again to receive us unto Himself. From that time forth we will be where He is. So, where is He when He returns with those saints who have gone before us? Will it be to earth to reign over it. If the Rapture is pre-Trib we must go with Him to heaven before returning to earth, because where He is there we will be. So let’s examine “Tribulation Risings” Rapture proofs to determine the Rapture timing. Obviously I will have to introduce other scriptures in order to explore these proofs posted on their site.
Apokalupsis a revelation or taking the cover off. Even pre-Trib scholars see this meaning as being made visible to the world. This being made visible to the world can only happen at His Second Coming. From Luke’s recording of Jesus’ explanation of His (Jesus’) day. The day of His revelation (Strong’s 601 in Luke 17:30) what can we learn? I want you to listen to what Jesus says in this section of the Bible in Luke 17. Vs.26 just as it happened in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the son of man. Vs. 27b. Noah entered the Ark and the flood came and DESTROYED them all. Now ask yourself a question ((Does the Tribulation destroy them all?) Or does the Lord at His Coming DESTROY them ALL?))Them being the evil ones? Vs.28. It was the same in the days of Lot. vs. 29. On the day that lot went out it rained fire and brimstone and DESTROYED them ALL. vs.30. IT WILL BE JUST THE SAME ON THE DAY THAT THE SON OF MAN IS REVEALED. Please keep this understanding of the day of Jesus revealing in mind. I will refer you back to it.
Thus if this following verse is a Rapture verse is it a Post-Trib verse, or a pre-Trib verse?
2. For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
Romans 8:19 NASB
There is a reason beyond this words definition, that screams that this verse cannot be used to depict a pre-Trib separation of the Rapture and second coming. For if we consider the following verse spoken by Jesus to the Jews we must again draw a very important conclusion as to the timing of this revealing. Listen:
36 for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Luke 20:36 NASB but the verse that precedes this verse is one of the clinchers, when considering the timing of the Rapture. There Jesus says that for those who are worthy to attain to the age to come there will be neither marriage nor giving in marriage as it now is in this present age. These verses make the Jews not only worthy of the next age but they are to be sons of God just as we will be in the age to come. They will be present in that revealing. They must be revealed with us as sons of God and that cannot happen until all are saved. One new man (Jew and Gentile) just as Paul taught it. But the remnant of the Jews of today’s nation Israel are not to be saved even according to Pre Trib scholars until either, according to them, the very end of what is known as Great Tribulation; Or some even say after the Tribulation. Pre-Trib scholars have some teachers abiding in each of those beliefs.
3. so that you are not lacking in any gift, awaiting eagerly the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will also confirm you to the end, blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:7-8 NASB.
The day of Christ and the day of the Lord can not be proven different in scripture. Even Zodhiates a highly respected Greek Scholar within the pre-Trib camp, states these to be one and the very same day. This verse actually makes them the same, because this is the day of Messiah’s revealing Apokalupsis. This is the Day of the Lord’s revealing. Remember what Jesus says in Luke 17, about what happens when He comes. Remember the concept “Destroyed them ALL”.
5. If anyone does not love the Lord, he is to be accursed. Maranatha.
1 Corinthians 16:22
The name Maranatha is a Biblical baby name. In Biblical the meaning of the name Maranatha is: The Lord is coming.
There is no way to make this coming to be only a separate Rapture. It must be combined with the Second Coming and it’s Destruction for all in order to accomplish what it says. Anyone judged to be accursed must receive that judgment when the Lord returns to execute judgment.
6. For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
Philippians 3:20-21 NASB
Yes we are citizens of heaven. We are not of this world. When we are born again we are spiritually seated with Christ. But, David is also a resident of heaven Listen:
Surely goodness and lovingkindness will follow me all the days of my life, And I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever.
But neither of these ultimate conditions will change our positions during the Millennium. We are joint heirs in the covenants and promises of the Old Covenant. We are part of the commonwealth of Israel and during the millennium we will reign with Him, being where He is. This is where many of the promises we inherit will be carried out. The new Jerusalem does not come down until following The Day of The Lord (the millennium), and we shall dwell in the house of the Lord forever with David.
In this same letter where Paul speaks of our heavenly citizenship, he also speaks of attaining to the resurrection. The second verse that Pre-Trib adherents pull from this letter to prove the pre-Trib rapture is his statement of the Lords nearness. Here is the context surrounding that verse.
Philippians 3:11-12,21. in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
Phil. 4:5. Let your gentle spirit
7. be known to all men. The Lord is near. Vs 6. Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
Philippians 3:11-12,21,4:5-6 NASB
The verse following the Lord is near makes clear his meaning. We can and do reach out to the Lord in supplication and prayer at any time. In fact we are to be constant in prayer. This is not a pre-Trib verse.
Paul is expecting to attain to the Resurrection not the Rapture.
8. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.
Colossians 3:4 NASB
This is definitely a second coming verse, for one to claim that it proves the pre-Trib Rapture is mere conjecture on their part. We will be revealed in the resurrection and Rapture when Christ is revealed. This tells nothing of the timing relative to Tribulation. But it tells much by relating that timing to the Revelation of the Second Coming. That information also comes from other scripture. And we saw it’s proof in Luke 17. Remember what He said of His revealing Strong’s #601.
9. 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come. 1 Thess. 1:10
Wrath has been overly complicated by pre-Trib Dispensationalists. It therefore is complicated to answer them. I have done a separate blog post speaking to just the subject of WRATH — it is titled: Is The Great Tribulation Really God’s Wrath — is it really the wrath that we will not see? Posted Aug 11, 2017. To entice you to read it. Here is the question I’ll give you to ponder. If every Man who is not a Christian will experience God’s Wrath, how can the Tribulation be that Wrath?
10. 2:19 For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming? 1 Thess. 2:19
I’ll just ask you — how is this proof that the Rapture is separated from the Second Coming? It in fact makes our hope to be realized at His Coming.
11. 1 Thess. 4:13-18 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet (Paul makes this Trumpet the last Trumpet in 1Cor. 15) of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.
The pre-Trib definition of the comfort here is that we will not see Tribulation, but that is not what Paul is comforting here. We will see our loved ones who have died. When the Lord returns we who may not have yet died will be caught up at the same time, an instant after the Resurrection. And notice this occurs at the coming of the Lord. Would this not have been an ideal time to distinguish between the two if there are yet two comings?
12. 1 Thess 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
See material for 1Thess. 1:10 verse above. You need to read that article. Revelation’s (Orge Greek Word) Wrath is what we will escape.
13. 1 Thess 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 1:10,2:19,4:13-18,5:9,23 NASB
In fact this and all of the verses above fail to support two yet future comings of the Lord, which is necessary in order for the Rapture to be a separate event, because the Rapture definitely occurs at His Coming. There is never explained in Scripture two separate and distinct Second Comings.
14. 2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
This is another verse taken out of context in an attempt to prove a separate gathering from the coming of the Lord. Its interesting if you study this entire argument that here in this verse we are asked to view the coming of the lord as the Second Coming and the gathering to be a separate event — this is the argument, they say gathering and coming are listed here separated by “and”. The Rapture then must be separate. But in 1 Thess. 4:13-18 discussed above these we are told are one and the same event. So, an unprovable “second” second coming must be understood in this verse. If that even makes sense. But also notice that the following two verses are left completely out of their listing of verses to proof the separation. If you read them you will see why.
vs 2. that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
Vs. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 NASB
So, Paul picks up here on the falling away (apostasy) and the abomination of desolation (the man of sin) which Jesus spoke of in relation to His Second Coming, and tells just as Jesus had done that these will precede the gathering (Rapture) and His coming after the Tribulation.
15. that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing (Greek word for appearing Epiphaino) of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Timothy 6:14 NASB
The Greek word used here for appearing is the same word used for appearing in the following verse by Paul.
Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the (appearance Epiphaino) of His coming;
2 Thessalonians 2:8.
What is interesting is that there can be no discussion of this words meaning. Christ will destroy Antichrist at His appearing. That folks is described at the time of the Second Coming (see Revelation 19).
16. I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His (appearing Epiphaino) and His kingdom:
2 Timothy 4:1 NASB
Again the same Greek word by Paul, and this time Paul combines with this appearing to further clarify its meaning both Christ’s Judgement and His kingdom. There is no question but that these occur at the time of His Second Coming. Listen to this verse concerning the Judgment of Christ:
12 “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Revelation 22:12 NASB
Many times I ask this question — does every man not mean every man? Jesus will judge every man even His bride during the Day of the Lord after His return. For the timing of the Brides judgment and marriage you may want to read: THE ANCIENT JEWISH WEDDING — how does it effect prophecy? Posted June 12, 2017 on this site.
17. in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His (appearing Epiphaino).
2 Timothy 4:8 NASB
On that day it is generally agreed even by dispensational scholars that this is a last day verse. I would agree since Paul is looking forward to his crown from the righteous Judge. The discussion on the previous verse would imply that that will occur on the Day of the Lord — on that day. This again is not a pre-Trib concept.
18.Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
The pre-Trib argument here is that the “blessed hope” and the Appearing are two different events. But the fact is that both will come in the next age which is what all believers are hoping for. If the Rapture were the blessed hope as they would like us to believe then only the believer who is alive at the time of the Rapture could hold to this hope. Listen to what is stated to precede this hope, and one can tell that this hope is what we have to look forward to in the next age.
Titus 2:11-13 NASB
2:11-12. For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,
The present age Paul speaks of here is the age Jesus spoke of wherein there is marriage and giving in marriage versus the coming age when the sons of God are revealed. If we are in Christ we all have this blessed hope, and need not to never have died in order to experience it. Paul explains later in this letter what he means by blessed hope Titus 3:7 where he says that “we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.” This to every believer is the blessed hope.
19. Heb. 9:28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.
Hebrews 9:28 NASB
What so often amazes me is the lack of good exegesis when one is so engaged in ones bias to a given position. Here it says that Christ will appear a second time. It does not say that He will appear before the second Coming to those who eagerly await Him. But it is only to those who eagerly await the pre-Trib Rapture that these teachers must think that He will appear. Because to them the fact of our eagerly awaiting Him must mean that His appearing is imminent, and thus pre-Trib. We eagerly await Him because we love Him. It has nothing to do with an expectation of an any moment arrival. We love our children and eagerly await the arrival of their next visit. But we generally know when that is. So it is with the scripture. We have signs. We don’t love them any less because their coming is not imminent. Nor are we any less eager to see them.
20. James 5:7-9 Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door.
10-11 As an example, brethren, of suffering and patience, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord. We count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lord’s dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful.
James 5:7-11 NASB
What we know about this time in history is the extent of persecution that was invading the body was causing the need for endurance. We can see that this was the problem facing this body in verses 10-11. Therefore the necessity of a message of patience and endurance, which is also offering blessed hope. Paul had done something similar with the Thessalonians who had thought that they were in the Tribulation. If you read the following verses to the Thessalonians you will see similarities.
so that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be (revealed Greek Apokalupsis*) from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
2 Thessalonians 1:4-10 AKJV
*the Apokalupsis is the unveiling of Christ at His Glorious Appearing.
James 5:7-9 is not proof of a pre-Trib Rapture unless the rest of these scriptures we are viewing are erroneous. We need to remember that to the Holy Spirit who is inspiring these scriptures the terms near, at the door or at hand are real. 1000 years is as a day, or a day is a 1000 years. But the Holy Spirits message to this body as it is to us is to patiently endure until we actually see the Judge who will judge appropriately. So far it has only been two of God’s days — 2000 years.
21. 1 Peter 1:7 that the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the (appearingApokalupsis 602) of Jesus Christ: 13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the (revelationApokalupsis) of Jesus Christ;
1 Peter 1:7,13 AKJV
Remember *the Apokalupsis is the unveiling of Christ at His Glorious Appearing. Neither is this a pre-Trib passage. Both verses refer to the Second Coming which by all evidence includes the Rapture. Remember Luke 17.
1Pet. 5:1 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed:
22.4 And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.
1 Peter 5:1,4 ESV
Verse 4. Is the focus here in the list of verses, but I wanted you to also see that Peter sees himself as a partakers in Christ’s glory. The crown of Glory will come to us at the judgment. We had previously looked at Jesus own statement concerning the timing of this Judgment. Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Revelation 22:12 NASB
In order to accomplish this of course requires the resurrection of every man. Peter will be part of that but only through resurrection because he knew that he was to die for Jesus. He was not therefore looking for Rapture. Before these verses Peter had said that Judgment will begin with the household of God. That probably means that we will be judged first when Christ returns, but it could also mean that the Tribulation is where this Judgment begins in order to prepare a bride without spot or wrinkle. In Revelation 19 just before the Lord returns we hear that “the bride has made herself ready”. This certainly means that Tribulation saints have in some way cooperated with God in the purging of sin and error from within. Overcoming was His message to us as stated to the 7 churches.
These will be joined with the dead in Christ to complete the Bride of Christ, and the bride has made herself ready.
23. And now, little children, abide in him, so that when he appears we may have confidence and not shrink from him in shame at his coming. Beloved, we are God’s children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
1 John 2:28,3:2 ESV
It is thought by the pre-Trib advocate that the Greek word is describing a different kind of appearance, let’s examine its definition: the Greek is Phaneroo
And it must be preceded by Apokalupsis. (Phaneroo — to make manifest) to the one to whom Christ is (Apokalupsis – revealed) example in Ephesians 3:3. By revelation there was made known to me the mystery.
So we will see Christ, be changed and then we will know Him and be as He is. If you can dissect a pre-Trib Rapture from this more power to you. If you cannot be sure but you yet insist it to be there; then you are either twisting the word of God, or you just don’t care what it says.
24. keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
Jude 1:21 ESV
This is another verse stated to speak pre-Trib Rapture. Yet, what does the context of this letter tell us? We are to build ourselves up in the faith, praying in the Holy Spirit. How do we build ourselves up in the faith? Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. If we twist the word of God, in order to glean from it a message that is not there, we cannot be building our faith. We are told in vs. 3 to contend earnestly for the faith. Jude says just as Paul had said — that Israel is our example. Vs. 5 God destroyed those who did not believe. What does that mean to us? Those who fell in Israel at one point simply did not believe that God could conquer the promised land. They fell in the wilderness. In vs. 9 Michael did not contend verbally with a railing judgment the Devil, but simply said “THE LORD REBUKE YOU”.
We too must believe the word of the Lord. Do we know Jesus, we find Him today in the truth of the Word. He is the word. He is the truth. He is the life. And “we are awaiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.” He is the life. What might the fate of men be who turn this mercy of our Lord that leads unto eternal life into a pre-Trib Rapture apart from His Second Coming?
25. Rev. 2:25 Only hold fast what you have until I come.
This is another verse that is to depict the pre-Trib Rapture and separate it from the second coming. It again is out of context. The preceding verses to Thyatira tells us that some of Christ’s bond servants are committing adultery and eating food (This could also be Spiritual food) sacrificed to idols. There is a promise to these and to the churches as a result. The churches He says in verse 23 will know as a result of His action who He is — read it. So what is the action that causes the churches to know? It is the throwing of those who commit adultery with Jezebel (this false teacher) into Great Tribulation vs’s 20-22). The question that I have for you is this — how do the seven churches learn this lesson from “great tribulation” (same Greek word that Jesus uses in Matt.24) without themselves being present as individual churches to learn? Why are they called here “all the churches” in vs 23, if they are only one church (the bride) during this time of great tribulation? Nevertheless “hold fast what you have until I come” (Revelation 2:25). Does this verse teach that this coming is a pre-Trib coming?
Rev.2:26 The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, 27 and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father.
26. Rev.3:10 Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.
This is another verse loved by pre-Trib scholars because they say it teaches a pre-Trib Rapture. Is the hour of trial the great tribulation? You see I also as a post-Trib believer believe that I will be kept from this hour of trial. This hour of trial occurs with the pouring out of Orge Wrath, that we are promised to escape. That wrath in sequence of time occurs at the end of the bowls of wrath. I don’t have all the answers, but the Word of God does. You may want to read my article: Is The Great Tribulation Really God’s Wrath — is it really the wrath that we will not see? (Posted Aug 11, 2017) if you like this article you may also want to read: The Fall Feasts and The Coming of Messiah (Also posted Aug 11, 2017).
11 I am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown. 12 The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name.
Revelation 11-12 ESV
This is a very long article, but it is a very confused topic because of all the different views presented in our day. I do not claim to know all truth. It would be terribly arrogant to think that. I do believe what the Bible says. However it requires study to show ourselves approved. It is self interpreting, line upon line, line upon line. Here a little there a little. It requires the guidance of the Holy Spirit. keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ that leads to eternal life.
Jude 1:21 ESV