Maybe we both are:
Bob emailed me Re: yesterdays post. He had some observations concerning the dismissal of Tucker and others which could be worth your consideration. He is welcome to post those in the comments section under yesterdays post for they are not listed here.
I have extracted his conclusion; wherein he is hitting at me as a member of the conservative right. I do this in order to give insight into his stance concerning our government, and me, or us as Christian conservatives.
Bob writes the following to me as a summary of his response to yesterdays post:
“You’re free to believe anything you want but claiming that the American news media is unconcerned with personal freedoms is a joke. The far right doesn’t want a democratic country. They want a theocracy that imposes their religion and values on everyone else. Forget giving others the right to practice any religion they want (or atheism), read any book they want, exercise their 1st amendment freedom of speech rights (retribution against Disney), being pro business (revenge against “woke” companies), protection from gun violence, allowing women’s reproductive freedom, assuring adequate protection from hunger to our most vulnerable children, freedom from racial discrimination, voting rights and any number of other personal freedoms the “Christian” white nationalist right want to eliminate. To me, saying the right is all about personal freedom is the height of hypocrisy.”
I will attempt to answer point by point
Bob:
“You’re free to believe anything you want but claiming that the American news media is unconcerned with personal freedoms is a joke.”
Me:
Bob, you of all people because of your raising should know that freedom only exists within the secured boundaries of this nation and within it’s morals given her constitution and laws which are based upon those morals. Morals can and do/are changing. We have existing laws that our Government refuses to hold themselves to — much less our citizenry. Beyond that there are freedoms under those laws, which just are not administered in a equitable fashion. You because you side with the left just refuse to admit those inequities. I’ve gone over them with you before and you just refuse to acknowledge them. You in fact treat what is discussed between us as if you were on a debate stage, and all you care about is winning the debate and you seem unconcerned about the truth of what is happening to the country. So let’s look at personal freedoms, which are under attack and sanctioned by the media. Liberals have the right to protect the minds of their children from the Bible, without being Called anti Christian, but conservatives have no right to protect their children from sexually explicit material and even the human displays being forced upon their children without being branded homophobic by the media when they protest. Whites are called racist for wanting our borders protected from all sorts of evil occurring there: drug trafficking, child trafficking, Inequality yes, and it is no joke.
Bob:
“The far right doesn’t want a democratic country.”
Me:
let’s look at Democratic aspect of American politics. A democracy is based upon fair election and laws produced from those representing the people. We have laws governing elections and morality. Those laws require proving your right to vote (age, citizenship, residence); seeing to it that you get only one vote; protecting your vote by assuring that everyone else is treated the same. Only the conservative right fights for that most important aspect of democracy, without which we have no democracy. And we are called racist for doing so.
Bob:
“They want a theocracy that imposes their religion and values on everyone else.”
Me: our nation began as thirteen colonies made states; each had their own religious views right from the start; thus as a nation we wound up with freedom of religion. But we still had our laws based on the same biblical principles. In the colonies people were forced to go to church, not a good thing, thus another reason for the country to have freedom of religion. There is obviously more to it then that. But our individual state laws were basically the same and based on biblical moral expectations of our society. Evil was understood to exist and needed to be controlled. Child molestation, Rape Homosexuality, murder, adultery, theft, abortion, property rights including trespass, running nude in the streets breaking any of it was frowned upon except by the offenders themselves possibly. Today the morality is being grayed and thus there needs to be debate and the ability to decide what is evil and what is not. If it actually comes down to a democratic vote then the free election system must be also fair elections in order for any democratic society to work; but progressives today don’t want legal as in what the states have determined and recorded in their laws governing said elections. No, they want what they apart from the law want the election result to be. And you are right true conservatives will fight for those laws to be upheld.
Bob:
“Forget giving others the right to practice any religion they want (or atheism),”
Me:
I shouldn’t answer this, it’s so untrue, but I will. Every religion in the world is practiced here. Since this nation has always been missionary minded why would we not spread the gospel here as well as abroad? But no religion has ever been outlawed unless there were other illegal reasons for doing so. Conservative Protestant Christianity has always understood that you can’t legislate salvation. You can only legislate morality based on what the democratic society deems moral. The immorality we see today is rampant. It has never been legislated or voted on to be such by our democratic society. Even you in the past agreed that Roe v Wade should have never been approved by the Supreme court, for it had never been legislated, nor had its merits been voted for or against. Progressives on the court were simply forcing their will undemocratically on the country, without the underpinning of the law.
Bob:
“read any book they want, exercise their 1st amendment freedom of speech rights”
Me: not sure I follow your logic. Bible banned in schools; free speech, what’s with hate speech against the Christian faith. It’s sure not from the MAGA conservatives, against whom you make these charges. Can’t express YOUR scientific opinion concerning men not having babies and the gender issue or have debate over what it is causing global warming. Can’t speak out on any of this without being called down by the media. What planet are you living on?
Bob:
“(retribution against Disney), being pro business (revenge against “woke” companies)”,
Me: progressives and liberals do much more regulation of business. And boycotting. Conservatives are now simply not being walked on by companies pushing evil any longer. If THEIR agenda involves forcing our kids or any kids to be exposed to the gay agenda in a public attraction subsidized by the state; then what was done was the democratic thing to do since this is the way things work in a state with properly run elections. They legislate what the people want. This is the way it works in a democracy, so the state decided through its democratically elected Governor and legislature to take action. That’s democracy at work.
Bob:
“protection from gun violence,”
Me: so I assume that you believe that reducing police protection in the city streets and in the schools is a conservative thing. And teaching our students about sex acts and 17 plus genders, and allowing drugs to cross our border at ever increasing rates has absolutely no effect on the emotional state of these perpetrators of crimes involving guns, not to mention no moral structure from scripture being taught most of them. All taken together no wonder these kids want to blow up society, but guns do not kill — people without good morals do. Shame on people who go along with this destruction of our young people Bob.
Bob:
“allowing women’s reproductive freedom,”
Me:
In other words allowing both men and women to be sexually promiscuous and then just kill the baby. At least you are not hypocritical Bob. You would never go against your God’s Scriptural teachings.
Bob:
“assuring adequate protection from hunger to our most vulnerable children,”
Me:
in my estimation our most vulnerable children are in the womb. But those not in the womb are provided for if their parents would just quit taking the money provided them and using it for drugs and booze
Bob:
“freedom from racial discrimination,”
Me:
Don’t know about you Bob, but three of my good friends are black. Tyrone is a good friend at church. We hug every time we see each other. My next door neighbors are a mixed couple, Dedear was in our home telling us good bye just last week.
Bob
“voting rights and any number of other personal freedoms the “Christian” white nationalist right want to eliminate.”
Me:
the only votes we want to eliminate are the illegal votes used to gain control and replace democracy with a communist form of socialism. The only reason that progressives want illegal aliens in our country is so their illegal votes can be added to these other illegal votes, which are against our voting laws. And you claim that you stand for us as a nation of laws, and for our democracy and the constitution, just who is the hypocrite here?
Bob:
“To me, saying the right is all about personal freedom is the height of hypocrisy.”
Me:
I’m glad you finished with that line otherwise the reader of this post might consider me to be as mean as you are uninformed and deceived. And what I’ve stated here is only the tip of the iceberg of disinformation from the progressive left and the media which is owned by them. Please humor me and at least try and understand the bias which comes from the owners of the media networks. They earned their title: “fake news”.
Hi Bob
I’m a friend of Jerry, and I believe exactly as he does. I’m not going to argue my views against yours as we for now will never agree. My only comment to you is God is in control and God Himself will decide whose beliefs are right and whose are wrong. If you are a true believer in God you will soon know if you or Jerry is right. I already know the answer, because I know God is about to wake up the “gone woke world”!!!!!!! With an Awakening and Shaking never seen before.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Roy, Although I don’t agree with much of the version of “truth” that you and Jerry espouse, I respect and will always defend your right to express your views. I do agree that God is in control and His truth is the only truth that matters in the end. I am a sinner saved by grace and for that I’ll always be grateful. Because of that, I do my best to live a life deserving of his forgiveness. For me, that starts with loving God with all that I am and loving my neighbors (including the ones I disagree with) and letting them see, in the way I live, an example as close to the kind of life Jesus modeled for us as I can. That is how I show my gratitude for God’s grace and is my primary means of evangelizing. When it comes to other people, including unbelievers, I take the words of Jesus to heart. (Matthew 7:1-5)
LikeLiked by 1 person
I should know better but maybe I’m a glutton for punishment. I’m going to accept Jerry’s invitation to post my complete response to his blog article yesterday: “Let’s Look at The Big Picture Around the Fox action.” I won’t respond further to his response today other than provide some additional context.
Jerry and have known each other for years and have “enjoyed” the banter of arguing about our respective views on various religious and political topics, especially during Covid when most of us were spending much of our time at home and had nothing better to do. We are both Christians but I focus much more on grace while Jerry seems, in my view, to emphasize judgment much more than grace. We’re both probably partly wrong and I would suggest that a more balanced approach, somewhere between our respective positions, is likely more biblical. Jerry thinks I am too tolerant of sin in the name of Christian love and I think Jerry spews anger and hatred in the name of calling out sin and calling for repentance.
I actually think Jerry is an almost perfect example of Maslow’s hammer, a cognitive bias that involves an overreliance on a familiar tool, best illustrated by his quote, “If the only tool you have is a hammer, it is tempting to treat everything as if it were a nail.” Jerry rarely seems to see a problem in our country, or in the world for that matter, that isn’t caused by the liberal elite, who are “hell bent” (pun intended) on making the U.S. a communist country, governed by a “one world government.” His article yesterday is illustrative. I believe most thoughtful people recognize that the problems we face are complex, with multiple causative factors, requiring complex and multi-pronged solutions.
Some of the “freedoms” I alluded to in the paragraph of my response Jerry pulled out of my response I do not embrace. I was using them to illustrate the hypocrisy of those who want to impose their religion and values on everyone else, ignoring constitutional protections or the rule of law. Jerry knows that about me but likes to accuse me of being an extreme liberal, which I’m not. For example, he knows that I abhor abortion but think that the backlash of a total or near total ban on abortion through state or Federal law would result in the demise of the political party responsible for imposing those bans because they are so unpopular with most women. We would be much more effective implementing policies that reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies through improved healthcare for women, providing better education to women around sexual topics in schools, making birth control more available, expanding adoption options, and a variety of other policy measure that prevent unwanted pregnancies so that abortions are unnecessary.
The only other observation I’ll make about his response is an apparent accusation, saying: “You in fact treat what is discussed between us as if you were on a debate stage, and all you care about is winning the debate and you seem unconcerned about the truth of what is happening to the country.” I think healthy debate is what democracy is all about. Politicians present their best policy ideas to solve the challenges we face, debate with those who have opposing views, and allow voters to decide whose ideas are best by voting them into office to legislate and implement their policy. In fact, I am very concerned about what is happening in this country, but for reasons very different from Jerry’s.
LikeLiked by 1 person
For anyone who wants to see my full comments, I posted them to Jerry’s blog article yesterday, as he requested.
LikeLiked by 1 person
You’re very gracious Bob. I’m in agreement with you but do not possess much grace for people like Jerry and those who subscribe to his religion.
May Jesus continue to bless you and yours.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thanks for expressing your opinion Stephen.
LikeLike
Stephen. I wish I could claim the high ground here but I can’t. Jerry won’t hesitate to call me out for my failings in this regard. Like you, I sometimes fail to extend the grace that I should. I share Paul’s frustration expressed in Romans 7:14-20.
LikeLiked by 1 person
I’d like to ask both you and Stephen a question. What is your opinion of Joe as a candidate for 2024, and do you agree with me that he should not be able to win, but will very possibly win?
LikeLike
Biden will certainly win if Trump is the Republican nominee. Too many people agree with me that Trump poses an existential threat to our country and it’s institutions. I think there are a number of Democrats that would make better candidates, and President, than Biden but all of them seem to be standing down and will not challenge him. IMHO, the only Democrat who has announced that he’s running, RFK Jr, has no chance of winning the nomination.
LikeLiked by 1 person
If Biden wins do you have any concerns as to who is actually advising him on the directions that he is taking and will take? Does his depletion of the countries military stockpiles concern you when we may find ourselves at war over Taiwan? Does his use of the FBI and DOJ in any way concern you with the actions that they have and have not taken concerning his political opponents? Does his parties involvement with alternative media and their attempts to control political speech concern you? Would you support JFK Jr as a Democratic candidate? To me and 75 million plus MAGA voters these are important questions. I have more depending on how you answer these?
LikeLike
” For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified” We are not political – we are citizens of another “country” – we pray for whoever is in government knowing that we are solely here to present Jesus and Him crucified – and we offer His salvation to all. To haggle about political views is an affront to His Lordship… If we are to offend another it will be on the basis of the Love of God as expressed in Christ.
It is because of these things (the mixture of Christians and politics) that we have brought reproach upon His Name.
BT
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thanks for the point of view that you bring Brian. But politics is not my reason for attempting to sound a trumpet of warning to Christian’s who ignore the fact that the gift of freedom that they have been given to choose righteousness over evil in government with their vote is fast disappearing. Having stated this I don’t disagree with what you say. We must understand that this world is not our home, and that we are not loved by that part of this world that also hates Jesus. But to those who still are open to hearing and able to understand the truth of God’s blessings and cursing of nations their needs to be a watchman on the wall who is willing to blow the trumpet warning of danger when it is revealed to him by the Holy Spirit within him, who is leading him in his way. I recently reblogged an article of yours Where are the watchman”, regarding that trumpeter. In God plan for Israel He appointed the Kings. It was the people who asked for them. I totally agree that God is in charge of who He gives us politically, but He does that based on what His people actually want. Complacency on our part leads to poor leaders. Engaged in righteous desires we get good leaders. If engaged we vote. Not mixing our faith with politics in this day in America as a concept really comes from the left and the enemy of our souls. We can’t be good witnesses and not be engulfed in life.
LikeLike
Well said Brian. You’re absolutely correct.
I believe the comment you made on your last blog entry about Barrabas actually applies to this situation of mingling politics and the Kingdom of God.
There’s nothing new under the sun.
LikeLike
Such a clear, well-written post! Thank you Jerry.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Thank you for stopping by, and for your kind words.
LikeLike