I will post this “on my blog” as well in an attempt to get more involved in this discussion.

The tying of the need to be in Christ in order to be resurrected is the point made by Paul in Scripture, and it is explained in Scripture by Paul. I merely point out and believe what Paul says within these passages, and I attempt to understand the points that he makes based on other Scriptures that we know the Holy Spirit also inspired. I believe that you study scripture, as do I in order to determine the truth being expressed.

What Paul and Peter both stated as they were inspired seems to provide the proof that Old Testament saints were added to the Church that Christ said that He would build.

I may not have done the job well of communicating what the Holy Spirit communicates to us in Scripture but the facts are just there. The Holy Spirit teaches us individually truth as He leads us to it.

So the question is: what do we do with these verses that I already stated to be facts presented in Scripture? I’ll try to do a better job of connecting my point. I will take them one at a time, with my questions surrounding them. In them Paul made the following points for us to consider:

1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by a man [came] death, by a man also [came] the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. (NASB1995)

My question here would be: if all have died in Adam, and as you say only all In Christ from the Church as you define it are made alive; then just how are all of God’s others made alive for eternal life? It seems to me that Christ was God’s promise to Israel.

Does this following passage help with that answer?

Ephesians 4:8 Therefore it says, “WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN.” 9 (Now this [expression,] “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.) (NASB1995)

These verses tell us that Jesus descended into the lower parts of the earth, and somehow through doing this, then captivity was led captive. Would this have anything to do with the salvation of those being held captive in the belly of the earth?

Does this following verse help explain this question?

2 Corinthians 12:2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago–whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows–such a man was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know how such a man–whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows– 4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak. (NASB1995)

If paradise was where we know that Jesus descended with the thief on the day of His crucifixion: then is paradise not also part of what He led captive at His resurrection, considering that Paul was led into heaven to visit paradise soon after Jesus resurrection?

If the answer is yes; then are they not fulfilling what Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 15:22?

If so how can we limit those in Christ to being just the Gentile Church following Christs resurrection? If not so, how do you explain these things?

So, is it possible that the Church itself corresponds in some way with the Olive Tree wherein all of God’s people of faith seem to reside.

Faithful Israel was in that tree. The remnant of Israel who accepted their Messiah are in that tree. We are in that tree as unnatural branches grafted in. Future Israel, who will turn to Christ will be in that same tree. You speak in your criticism of my thinking of assumptions on my part, but are they without scriptures backing? It would appear to some that dispensationalists assume the removal of a believing Church from the Olive Tree by rapture when the only stated basis for removal from this tree is the lack of belief, or unbelief.

Romans 11:20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. (NASB2020)

All the non believers who were and are in that tree have and will be removed from it. Sorry for the distraction.

Previously I had also given you verses in 1 Peter stating that the Gospel was preached to the dead. Would that preaching not have been fulfilled when Christ was in Paradise, which was then located in the belly of the earth? Does what Jesus had said in Peters presence support what Peter stated concerning this preaching?

John 5:25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. (NASB1995)

Dead here is corpse like. Did the Holy Spirit mean this to point to Peters reference to the gospel being preached to the dead? 1 Peter 3: Read it here:

Spiros Zodhiates when commenting on this passage in his Key Word Study Bible, concludes that this preaching went all the way back to the antediluvian age. He refuses to accept that they were offered the gospel or a second chance, as do I, but if Christ were offering the gospel to those awaiting Him in Abraham’s bosom, which was simply heard by all, as was Abraham across a great gulf heard by the rich man; then that makes perfect sense. For Peter here agrees with Paul, as he states that Christ suffered for sins once for all the just for the unjust, and the deliverance of those preached to in paradise, who were awaiting His arrival makes that act correspond with what actually happened 2000 years ago. Jesus paid it all. Dispensationalists fail to explain how salvation could come to a people awaiting a savior, if this scriptural explanation is incorrect as you say. If these Old Testament believers in God’s future provision were already delivered by the blood of Bulls and Goats then the writer of Hebrews was wrong when he explained the need for the New Covenant. If the old covenant could deliver us, why was there the need for the new? It certainly wasn’t because Jesus loved us Gentiles more than He loved the Jews, or more even than He loved Abraham, who himself must have been a Gentile. If you can find a better explanation from scripture, I’m all ears.

One last thing. My stating that there will be those in Christ on earth during Tribulation is challenged in your post. I am open for your explanation of just who these are, and how they will be given eternal life?

Revelation 7:14 I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (NASB2020)

Revelation 12:17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. (NASB2020)

These are a few of Jesus’ words to the Churches:

Revelation 2:25 ‘Nevertheless what you have, hold firmly until I come. 26 ‘The one who overcomes, and the one who keeps My deeds until the end, I will give him authority over the nations; 27 AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE SHATTERED, as I also have received [authority] from My Father; 28 and I will give him the morning star. 29 ‘The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ (NASB2020)

My thoughts concerning assumptions are these: Dispensationalists have formed assumptions concerning the whereabouts of the Church based upon the lack of the word Church in Revelation 4-19. They never explain why the word Church is not observed in the heavenly scenes which take place in those same chapters. They avoid explaining what Jesus meant by:

John 10:16 “And I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice; and they will become one flock, [with] one shepherd. (NASB2020)

The Holy Spirit confirmed through John what Jesus had meant when he had him answer concerning Caiaphas prophecy:

John 11:51 Now he did not say this on his own, but as he was high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation; 52 and not for the nation only, but in order that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. (NASB2020)

Below is a link to The post that I am addressing.

I will be on vacation for the next week and likely will not be posting for that week.