Ok, I realize this is somewhat confusing in scripture, but if you look at Daniel 7, when Jesus returns to reign He destroys the dominions or nations, but some of these remain for a season. Here is the passage:
Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time. Daniel 7:11-12
Obviously, these are not eternal beings, but human beings. And Jesus when He Judges The Nations in Matt 25 is doing this after He returns. When He returns all the saved of this age are with Him, resurrection and Rapture of the saved is over. These nations are therefore being judged as scripture tells based solely on their works or as it states here based on how they treated His brethren. We His brethren are standing here with Jesus. So there are three groups there. In Joseph Goods book on the kingdom from a Messianic Jewish perspective, he says that the Jews believed that there were three peoples to be judged at the Lords return. Or in the case of non Messianic Jews at His Coming.
My understanding of this would be — The totally righteous, that would be us who are in Christ, the totally wicked, the goats could represent these, and those who are given until Yom Kippur the day of atonement to repent or be cast out would be the sheep nations. Remember not all sheep are saved, Jesus leaves the ninety and nine to go after one lost sheep. Remember these sheep nations have not yet died nor have they been Raptured, so they are not redeemed. The eternal kingdom was prepared for them to inhabit in the flesh, they are there because they have done righteous deeds to us who were here during Tribulation, and now they must accept Jesus as their savior by Yom Kippur. Even though the kingdom is eternal, and they are judged righteous for their deeds, they cannot earn the kingdom for eternity based on their own righteous deeds. Their is nothing mentioned in the Matt 25 passage that indicates that they even know Jesus. If they were saved would they not know when they had given Jesus food, drink, or clothing by doing it to the least of these “their” brethren? But Jesus didn’t say that these who they helped were “their” brethren, but His brethren. These fit with Daniels dominions who are given life for a season. Beyond that I cannot speculate or know Gods mind, because He has not revealed any more in scripture. But you may also consider the nations who remain in Zachariah 14. Neither do these seem to be saved nations, but instead nations who are ruled by Christ. Remember He rules with a rod of iron, and we the saved sons of God rule with Him for 1000 years. He rules over nations (peoples) that are unsaved, or who are in the process of being saved.
I hope that this helps, because there is much confusion on this topic.
Jerry, I hope to study Daniel 7 soon. First, here are some things to consider.
1) It is “all the angels” who are with the Son of Man when He comes in His glory:
Matthew 25:31. “But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.
2) We’re told that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
3) God’s Word calls those at the Matthew 25 judgment “righteous” and “the righteous” call Him “Lord”, so they know Him.
37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
4) Matthew 25:46 is speaking of eternal verdicts.
“These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ok, I like the Scriptural challenge, I will give you my quick answer 2 Thess ch 1 also tells that the angels are with Him, but it also states to us that this is the time of our rest, and rest was equated to end of age resurrection for Daniel in last few verses of ch 12. Paul tells us in 1Thess 4 that He will bring with Him the dead or sleeping in Christ at His Coming, so, problem is one passage never seems to give the whole story. I guess that is why the command to study exists. The other point on the kingdom of God you need to consider in light of kingdom teaching is — Is the millennial kingdom the kingdom of God? I know the Amillennialist says yes, but Paul says in 1Cor 15 that then when all things are under Jesus feet He will turn everything over to the Father. I believe the millennial kingdom is the temporary process by which God places everything under Jesus feet. I’m sticking with Spurgeon and Ladd in Historic Premillennialism. Riddlebarger even says that these two positions Amillennialism and Historic Pre are able to talk with one another and have some common ground. He teaches that the New Testament explains the old. The last word in the new concerning the millennial reign explains it to be after Christ returns to earth and for it to last for 1000 years, following with the New Jerusalem.
LikeLiked by 1 person
From the article I posted this a.m.
“But are we really to believe that evil is not finally conquered at Christ’s return–even where Jesus is physically reigning and judgement has already occurred? Of course not, and this is self-evidently refuted by the analogy of faith, which expressly tells us that Jesus will destroy all of his enemies and hand the kingdoms of the world over to his Father (1 Cor 15:24) at his second coming.”
LikeLike
Your right, He does all of that it appears when He returns. As on the day of the Lord, which is His day. The day also referred to as the day of wrath in the Old Testament. But, why would He return to rule with a rod of Iron if He was done with Evil? Why would First resurrection Tribulation saints be said to rule with Him? The day of the Lord is His day. But it’s most likely this one thousand year day as Peter seems to be pointing out.
But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
2 Peter 3:8. Paul says that the lord returns on the day of the Lord 1Thess. 5:1. Even after His return He is trampling the wine press of God’s wrath, and the Judgment is also after this. He says 12 “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Revelation 22:12. Everyman will be judged on the day of the Lord. A study of the fall Feasts which it is believed He will fulfill at His Second Coming as He did the Spring Feasts at His first coming would require some days at least to complete once He comes. So even though sin is conquered and Satan is positionally defeated His rule is not complete. By the way I like Riddlebarger’s humble attitude, and his openness to learning. His admittance that all positions could be wrong, but not all can be correct. His advocating for further discussion. All are good qualities in any student of the word. I personally believe that there is truth in each system, but there is also likely error. The question — are we really looking for truth or are we closed and unreachable. Maria, I take you to be the former, and I certainly want to be. But one question why do you think Judgment has already occurred? I think that Paul leaves open exactly when all things are considered to be under His feet. They are being placed there so that He can hand all over to the Father. Why is it unreasonable to think this will be accomplished by Him as He rules?
LikeLike
Sorry I missed your point 3. If they were saved why were they not resurrected with the Tribulation saints? Paul called Him Lord before He was saved. Now to point 4. There is not a good answer for this except to say that we also are given eternal life, but there is every indication in scripture that by our denying Him or failing to abide in Him in faith we can throw away this precious gift. I have known those who have done so. We enter into eternal life when we enter into Christ. One throws away that position when he tramples His blood under foot by denying Him. Remember there is a seemingly unidentified unforgivable sin. If a literal understanding of Revelation 20 is true, there will be a rebellion when Satan is once again released at the end of 1000 years. If Revelation 20 is not to be understood then why does Paul speak of our reigning with Christ as future?
LikeLike
Jerry, I will study your responses and reply.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Ok, I just responded to what I thought was a response. I need to learn to use this site better.
LikeLiked by 1 person