This following comment, which includes today’s title, was allowed on Terry’s site, I copied the post to make clear a point. This comment points out a major problem that exists. The assumption is made that the difference between post and pre-Trib has never been resolved, but the Truth that this reader obviously wants cannot be communicated without discussion which is not allowed on most pre-Trib sites. It therefore is obvious that there are many who are not willing to engage the other side on this subject. I’m sure that there are several reasons for this, but one is obvious.
If I am winning in the marketplace, and I know that my product has weakness, then why would I allow my competitor time to debate me when I cannot answer his accusations against my product. I know for a fact that this is one reason why I cannot be heard. I am constantly refused to post on pre-Trib websites, I have been refused by letter an offer to debate on the John Ankerberg show, and by e-mail on Olive Tree ministries with Jan Merkell which is on an entire network of stations. Thus we have comments such as Lori’s – listen:
lori connot commented on Sure End-of-the-Age Indicator.
Really? True Christian People will not just throw that out there,they would search their heart, study, and pray to the Lord God about It. What is really going on here? Someone upset over being wrong? We all better search our Hearts about this Terry. Seems to me people have been having disputes over pre trib to post trib for years and never have resolved anything. I am moving forward with the Lord Jesus regardless and I believe The True remnant of God will. We all better evaluate and prepare, for scripture tells us what to expect. But are prophetic leaders in the fight more than they realize? If so they better decide what is true or do they even know?
This is a very honest post, by a very concerned Believer who is seeking for truth; but she will not find her answers on Terry’s website. Terry will continue to claim possession of the truth but will refuse to engage any Scriptural refutation of his position.
So what is the answer? — in the book, I suggest that the fact that Jesus had prayed (John 17) for unity which in that very prayer would bring about a knowledge to the world of the fact that His Father has loved Him and us. This unity will lead to the consummation of things in this age. Which will lead to all men being brought into the valley of decision. The answer to this (Jesus’ prayer) I believe is a key to the final consumption.
But think about it, if this unity has never happened without an intervention by God, and so far it hasn’t, then what will it take. There is only one thing that will bring about the answer to this prayer. What is that? — it is the actual carrying out or acting out of the prophetic scriptural events that are prophesied. We did not know that Jesus was the Messiah, the Word of God until He came. But all who believed in Him at once knew this truth. Even so there is Coming a day when all Prophecy is laid out before one particular generation of believers. — the last one to occupy this age. What will happen to create this unity?
There are supposedly two possibilities within this discussion. One — the pre-Trib Rapture comes about which is really nowhere verified by recorded Scripture but should it happen the issue is resolved forever; or Two — The Tribulation ensues and every believer recognizes that the events of Scripture are being confirmed by God Himself. So I want us to think about which of these two possibilities would lead to the answer to Jesus’ prayer?
The pre-Trib Rapture we are told by its advocates will actually lead to chaos, confusion and will be the cause for the onset of the Tribulation. The salt and light will be removed from the world and since Jesus’ prayer calls for the World to now know the truth of God’s loving Jesus and us, then they of course must now know. My question then is this — is there any evidence that this impact on the world which Jesus prayed for actually happens following a pre-Trib Rapture. Is the knowledge brought on by christian unity actually known by men on this earth at this the beginning of the Tribulation? Let me know should you find evidence of it. Yet there is this evidence of knowledge near the end of the Tribulation when The Wrath (Orge) of the Lamb is about to be poured out, as this knowledge leads to men hiding themselves in the caves to escape His presence and His Orge wrath.
Now I can see an argument that the pre-Trib Rapture would bring unity among believers, but only to a portion of those who would believe in Jesus as the Christ. The term Christ means that He is the Jewish Messiah. This fact is what Jesus is building His church upon, the fact that “thou art the Christ the Son of the living God.” So the unity in Jesus’ prayer would include the Jews. Yet the pre-Trib Rapture requires the opposite — a separation. Jesus prayed:
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. 11 I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. 15 I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. John 17:6,8,11,15-16,20-21
This is only a portion of this long prayer, but it speaks to the question at hand. In it is a prayer for all who believe as a result of the word that Jesus gave to the Disciples. Tell me can anyone come to Jesus apart from this word? What about the Jews of the nation Israel who will come to believe? What about Gentiles who will be saved during Tribulation? Once the Tribulation brings unity to the believer all the world will be thrown into the valley of decision and will know who Jesus is. The world’s response — do I join them in Him or do I stay in the world avoiding the dangers involved with an association with Him?
But as usual — you be the judge. Does a pre-Trib Rapture fulfill what Jesus prayed for? Does a post-Tribulation Rapture allow for its answer? But an even better question — where is the proof in Scripture telling us the timing of the Rapture itself? We will deal with this in a future post. In the interim you be the judge of what is written here.