But expecting something to be soon and expecting It imminently are to different things. Jesus said that He was coming soon 2000 years ago. In one such article recently shared as a post by bibleguy, I could not help but take note of the lack of consistency in the handling of and teaching of the word. In this article written by Ronda Lane she proclaimed her own belief and I guess she must think it is standard for our understanding the scripture. She states:
“but I believe every word in scripture is so very precise for a reason.” In this piece she is teaching concerning The Ezekiel 38-39 war, and the Rapture; she thinks that words in scripture are precise for a reason. Yet following are words of scripture concerning the future of resurrection given to Daniel. I’m afraid that she must see this group of words as carrying something other then precise meaning. We are going to think on these precise words.
You see one of Ronda’s secondary emphasizes in her article is resurrection. Daniel was given some “very precise” words “for a reason”, I do believe. Let’s examine them.
“Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time. But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age.”
Daniel 12:1-2,9,13 NASB
These are precise words, of resurrection, of rest, of subjects and of timing. Timing has to do with Great distress on Daniels nation (Tribulation/time of Jacobs trouble); and the end of the age, and rest. The timing of resurrection and rest is associated with the end of the age or end of days as other translators put it. The subjects are two; those (sons of His people) in the book (book of life) and those who are not. The timing between the subjects would be those in the book being first to rise. Ronda’s use of the precise words of scripture may be seen in her following quote:
“We aren’t even positive that the graves will physically be opened when the grace-age saints are called up with us. We may often have pictured this scenario in our minds, open mawing holes in the ground in cemeteries around the globe… But 1 Cor. 15:49-53 and 1 Thes. 4:13-18 don’t give us specific information about this part of the event. [I’m interjecting here, — but Rhonda other scriptures do. Sorry for the interruption back to Ronda.] So we are left wondering which way it will occur. Will their spirits be resurrected and then be changed and given a glorified body without disturbing the ground they are buried under? Or will their physical human bodies come forth out of the grave (leaving cemeteries and locations of burial places around the globe with dirt displaced) and then be changed and receive a glorified body?”….
Either way… we can only imagine right now. But we will soon find out. God, who fulfills His promises, and knows the end from the beginning… will be faithful to fulfill every word very soon. He gave us Bible prophecy to prepare us, not to scare us.”
There is actually so much wrong with Rhonda’s description of the Resurrection that one wonders, “where do I begin”?
She didn’t when writing this seem to know whether the souls or bodies would be resurrected. Here again is what she said: “Will their spirits be resurrected and then be changed and given a glorified body without disturbing the ground they are buried under? Or will their physical human bodies come forth out of the grave”(?) like many scholars of our day there is a seeming lack of ability to conceptualize and apply the progressive revelation of scripture on a given subject. I’m sure she knows that our spirit goes to be with the Lord when we die, it doesn’t stay in the grave. This also explains why she and others don’t apply all of the scriptures on resurrection to their understanding of its timing. For example concerning who we are in Christ, how can it not be seen that we Gentiles are one with Daniel’s people (one with the saints — all of them). We are all in the book of life (sons of God, children of Abraham) which Daniel was told about. We are all in that book if we are in Christ. The Jews cannot be saved or resurrected without being in Christ. The Rapture cannot occur until all who are in Christ are resurrected in the first resurrection at the end of the age. Jesus had told us that He would be with us until the end of the age.
Yet, in her focus on the Rapture she states:
“We must remember that it’s not just us (we grace/church-age believers who are alive at the time the rapture takes place) that will be taken up, but also the resurrection of all those who have died (in Christ) over the last (almost) 2,000 years.”
This kind of thinking can only come from an inability spoken of earlier to conceptualize progressive revelation. It comes in other words from a one track mind. ON THE RAPTURE ONLY. the facts of resurrection teaching are lost in the thinking of these brethren. Resurrection is the subject in scripture. Even in Paul’s teaching on it (the “rapture”) his focus is the resurrection which happens at Jesus Second Coming. It is the resurrection that Paul is explaining to comfort us concerning death.
Remember she said: “but I believe every word in scripture is so very precise for a reason.” Yet words really have no meaning in Dispensational theology. There is no church age in scripture, you can’t find it. There is no second gospel — which if existed would leave (in Christ alone) out of the salvation equation for some). There are no stages of the resurrection of those who are in Christ. “Christ the first fruits and then those who are His at His Coming.” What is so hard about this? Yes there are promises to Israel — she will be saved; she will enter her land in the kingdom, but WE inherit with her — the same covenants and promises Eph 2.
The second coming is soon, because Tribulation is even now upon some, and seems to be very close for all, but that means for us too. Those of us who are in Christ will all rise at the same time at the end of the age.
The above quotes of Ronda Lane were taken from: Why The US Won’t Aid Israel During Ezekiel 38-39 :: By Ronda Lane
Published on: August 28, 2018 by RRadmin7 Category:General Articles on Raptureready.com
Hi Jerry.
As you know, I too believe in the post tribulation rapture.
But just because the rapture doesn’t come as soon on the calendar as a pre tribulation rapture…
That doesn’t mean that people are any less subject to judgement.
Because when anyone dies, we are then at the judgment seat of Christ.
So “when” the rapture occurs, really has no affect on our accountability to God.
I say that,…
not because it relates directly to the subject matter of this post.
But I say that because some pre tribulation people may read this. And I want to stimulate thinking in this direction…
Pre tribbers who frequently make the case that you had better be ready, because the rapture could occur at any moment.
Don’t consider I suppose…that one’s accountability to God is reckoned upon our death…regardless of when the rapture occurs.
The more important issue is…have you rested in the finished work of Christ?
Have you ceased from your works to be justified before God the Father?
Do you believe that you’re the righteousness of God by grace through faith?
Or are you trying to get saved by your effort?
That’s the subject that people need to get clarity about.
Your friend,
Lee
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May I add please, that I don’t know everything, and I’m wrong about stuff all the time.
So please forgive me if my comment is off base or inaccurate.
It’s just that my heart is for evangelism, and I would be so thrilled to see people celebrating God’s grace.
But I see it so seldom,
I love you my brother, and I appreciate your kindness.
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Lee, I think all of us want for everyone to see the revelation of Jesus redemptive work that He has allowed us to see. Keep evangelizing brother.
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Thank you again brother for your kindness.
I don’t take it lightly, because I appreciate your kindness very much my friend.
And I’m sorry for going on a rant on your post. I should have stated whatever I was going to say on my own site.
So I’m sorry for taking the liberty that I took on your site, please forgive me.
And if you want to delete this whole thread because it’s not really in sync with the subject of your article here…
Then have at it.
The last thing I want to be a party to is to be divisive or causing confusion within the body of Christ.
Once again, thank you for your kindness.
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Lee, don’t ever feel bad about standing for truth. I I haven’t defeated a post since I started, because I’ve been deleted myself and I don’t think it helps anyone to ignore others unless they are just disrespectful to the Lord. Like you said somebody might need this.
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Good point, Lee. Nothing that we can do but to rest or abide in what He has done.
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Hi, Lee, part of the problem is that people do not accept “free” gifts generally. I am very surprised at the younger generation’s entitlement capability. Most of the time even if a friend or coworker buys a person a birthday gift, then the receiver puts that person on their calendar to return the “favor”. We do not receive free very well. We always think there is a catch. Most people will think, at least in America, they have to do something to receive this gift even if they say ‘faith alone’. I too have a heart for evangelism, but I seldom see people celebrating God’s grace. I believe what James says 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. God bless you both for trying to reach people on the other side of the Tribulation belief and doing it so kindly!
Thanks, Jerry, your articles are always thought provoking. God bless you brother!!
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Christian both you and Lee exemplify Christ’s love for others no matter who or what their beliefs or hang ups. I appreciate you both. Jesus loved that way didn’t he. But we have to admit that He did tell them on which road they were traveling , and sometimes pretty bluntly.
And you are so right about gifts. There is more than one saying of mankind concerning the man bearing gifts. And certainly some of their concerns are real. Even in Christianity though salvation and it’s cost is fully paid, and freely given; still following Christ can come with great cost to some. But God is always the provider of Grace to see us and them through. I’m glad to hear from you Christian you’ve been missing. I believe your back to work. I hope it’s going well. God bless you brother.
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And Jerry,
I thank you again for you being kind to me. You are my friend, and I appreciate you very much.
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Feeling is mutual Lee.
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Hi Christian,
I’ve never encountered you before that I recall, but am very grateful for the kind words that you shared with me.
Lord bless you brother.
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