Terry James in this post is drawing our attention to the pre-Tribulation and the post Tribulation views on the Rapture. He states: “The defining thing to consider in thinking on the two diametrically different views of the Rapture and Second Coming is wrapped up in the term ‘thief in the night.’”
Terry makes clear that both Peter and Paul use this term to indicate the timing for the Rapture. On this point I agree. He states: “It will be a sudden, catastrophic break-in upon a world doing business as usual.” His reference for this statement is Luke 17:26-29
26 And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; 29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
Luke 17:26-29 NASB
Terry presents these verses to imply that what Jesus stated here represents a world “doing business as usual”. However what Jesus states here, as the condition existing at His Coming, certainly implies something more than normalcy. For God was ready to and did unleash total destruction in both examples used by our Lord. And so it will be at His Second Coming. Were we to look back at the actual time in question of each of these events we would see out of control sin and total disregard for God Himself. This will also be the condition on most of the earth following the Tribulation. What was normal then on the outside was certainly not normal on the inside of man. At this time man w/o Christ will have been given over to a reprobate mind (2 Thessalonians 2). The marriage and giving in marriage spoken of by Jesus is only an indication of the age in which we are now living, and in which we will live until He comes. It will come to an abrupt close with His coming. To the world this will be sudden and unexpected. To the bride who has prepared herself (Rev.19:7), it will be seen as imminent. In fact this will be the only time in man’s history that His Coming will be imminent (overhanging with nothing else to come before it). If you view one of my previous posts, this condition is fully explained there in this article: Here are the Scriptural Errors that Can Be Found in Just This One Paragraph Of Terry James’ Article, Missing Dave Hunt, posted July 25th.
But back to this post. Here Terry uses additional scripture to impress the “thief in the night” surprise on us. “(Jeremiah 30:7; Matthew 24:21). He says: “This indicates that it will be a total surprise, because a thief in the night doesn’t announce his coming with great, cataclysmic fanfare. The break-in is swift, stealthy–a totally unexpected event.”
So let’s view his last point with the scripture he refers to.
‘Alas! for that day is great, There is none like it; And it is the time of Jacob’s distress, But he will be saved from it.
Jeremiah 30:7 NASB
No surprise here because the O.T. Promises God’s eventual deliverance of Israel from the day of Jacobs trouble. Terry attributes the “day” in this verse as being the Day of the Lord, but it cannot be.
21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
Matthew 24:21.
I don’t intend to reinvent the wheel. So to answer this I will refer you to another of my posts:
Alas, you who are longing for the day of the Lord, Nov. 17,2017. You see according to Joel the day of the Lord does not begin until there is total darkness on the earth. Jesus says in Matthew 24, that the sun moon and stars are at this time no longer producing light. The whole earth is covered in darkness. This is the only way He can return as a thief in the “night”. Otherwise it would not be “night” in almost half of the earth. But He will be seen by all when He comes because He is the light.
The day of the Lord is not to be desired unless you are in Him and with Him at His Coming. To many He will say “depart from me for I never knew you.” This is why Paul says: “make your calling and election sure”.
Terry says that this “the thief in the night” is the difference in believing in a pre-Trib versus a post-Trib Second Coming. On this point he is correct. The Lord will not return until the end of the age when there is total darkness or “night”.
Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. While they are saying, “ Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. (At this point in time men have escaped the Tribulation only to be utterly surprised by His Coming) But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief; for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober. For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night. But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, (Should you want to see what scripture defines this wrath to be that we escape, see my post: Is The Great Tribulation Really God’s Wrath — is it really the wrath that we will not see? Aug. 11,2017). but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him. Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 NASB
No scriptural proof-text in God’s Word more clearly points to the first of the two phases of Jesus Christ’s Second Coming than does the following: “For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night” (1 Thessalonians 5:2). We who hold to the pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint are often accused of being deceivers. We are condemned by our detractors as leading astray Christians alive now–if they live to see it–who will be required to endure the tribulation, thus to wash their robes clean in preparation for inheriting God’s Kingdom.
We are castigated for foisting upon innocent, gullible believers a “secret rapture” that will somehow lead these Christians to take the mark of the Beast (Revelation 13:16-18).
I’m not precisely sure of their “reasoning,” but I think they claim this because they are convinced that the ones who fall for the Rapture viewpoint won’t be able…
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Jerry, I’ve read this and want to read Terry James’s post now.
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Here is my view but I haven’t posted it there yet.
Brother James,
I don’t believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture but in a simpler view of the End Times that Jesus Himself set forth plainly for us, that is, that there are two ages, “this age” and “the age to come.” I don’t believe that most believers in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture are deceivers at all! I love them.
Please take a look – you misquoted this Scripture, leaving out a phrase:
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ [missing part] shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)
It should read:
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
This is not meant as rebuke. Knowing the Word as you do, it must be an oversight.
However, from examining this passage it is clear that the Rapture is announced or broadcast loudly by: the Lord’s descent from Heaven with a shout, the voice of the archangel, and the trump of God. Everyone will know exactly what happened. This should be plain to us. Aren’t dispensational futurists determined to be literal? Literally this has to be the Second Coming. Our blessed hope is the glorious appearing of our Great God and Saviour Jesus Christ. The Rapture happens then. The Church made up by God’s good pleasure of Jew and Greek (Gentile) – as one new man – was always God’s plan. The Church does not live in a parenthesis in which millions were martyred by the Antichrist, and millions were slain in the Holocaust, and millions died in one outbreak of bubonic plague alone. Please take a simpler view than the seven years of Tribulation. The Seventieth Week was fulfilled at Christ’s First Appearing. He is enthroned in Heaven now, waiting until the Father has made His enemies a footstool for His feet.
It isn’t that Pre-Tribulationists are deceivers – though there are deceivers who hold all the views of the End Times – but that they fail to rightly divide God’s Word.
For many years, my husband and I were taught and studied the Pre-Tribulation Rapture, two Second Comings, and the Millennium. It isn’t that we’re ignorant of those things at all but were taught them from the time we were saved.
God bless you, dear brother! I won’t come back to bother you again but the truth must be made known, even by the least of them.
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Maria, thanks for your comment, and sorry for the oversight. You could of course be correct concerning the seventieth week, but there is a time set aside for Jacobs trouble, and it could well coincide with the Seven year Tribulation that Jesus seems to see coming before His return. Your coming back does not bother me. I appreciate your insights. And I certainly don’t consider you the least of them, but always appreciate your wisdom.
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Jerry, I’m reading Jeremiah 30 now. Must study it.
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Jerry, I posted my comment and Terry James replied. All is okay.
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Good
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Thanks, Jerry!
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Jerry, isn’t Jeremiah 30 speaking of the Exile and return?
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Maria, I think all you need do is read the last verse 24, and you should have your answer. But yes as God always does in prophetic scripture there is the possibility of double meaning. I think that we’ve discussed this before, but remember the prophecy on the virgin birth. There was a fulfillment closer in time, but then there was the Messianic fulfillment. If one considers other O.T. Scripture concerning Israels future under the New Covenant then we need to realize that God will do what is necessary in order to bring Israel to Christ. What is necessary is the purging that Zachariah 13:6&8-9 concerning the land of Israel this is the time of Jacobs trouble mentioned in Jeremiah 30. Then consider the purpose which is revealed in Hosea 5:15. God during Tribulation will bring Israel to her knees in order that She will seek Him (Christ). Paul told us her being added back to the Olive tree when God is finished with the Gentiles, and then “all Israel” which means our inclusion as well as hers will be saved. Hope this helps.
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I must tell you that when the posts are too long for me to read I just ead to get an idea or try to speed read, ADD
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I understand
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