I’m not sure if you have followed the thread of discussion taking place on one of my previous articles, but this piece is coming out of that thread. I’m sharing because there are some very interesting issues brought out here. This article and the previous one are both coming out of information presented by Tribulation Rising on fatcow.com. Join in the discussion should you wish.
Sister, there are two more things that I hope you will give some prayer and consideration to.
The first is the one thousand year reign of Messiah. I want to speak of these things as they are presented on this site that you referred me to:
http://tribulationrisingcom.fatcow.com/matthew-24-and-the-rapture/
First let me say that all of the research with numbers in his article (TIME, TIMES AND DIVIDING OF TIMES. THE TIMING OF THE TRIBULATION)
is very impressive, but it is all done to make one point, and that point is — that the DAY OF THE LORD is not 1000 years long. It is according to this pre-Trib site 1007 years long and it includes the Tribulation. This of course is his effort to make the Rapture pre-Trib.
I want you to think about this — everything that is said in scripture concerning the DAY OF THE LORD is stated in clear terms. The day is 1000 years not 1007. The DAY does begin with the Rapture. It is sudden and unexpected by all the world. I’ll deal with that when I look at his next point. But for now remember — you and I are not of this world and we are not blind to what the scripture says.
If you remember what I wrote you yesterday that THE DAY OF THE LORD on which we are Raptured begins with total darkness and there is no indication how long that darkness will last in numbers of days. But Paul tells us in 2 Thess. 2. That THAT DAY will not come until two things happen — the Apostasy (Jesus called this the falling away) and secondly the man of sin be revealed, who Jesus will destroy at His Coming. Jesus also spoke of this in Matthew 24.
What the fat Tribulation Rising site is doing is deceptive on both these points. They blow a lot of very impressive looking smoke in my opinion in order to cover up the truth. Let’s deal with their next question or issue:
Next question – if the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation (or even the middle as others believe) – exactly how does it come on the whole world as a trap? Other translations render this as “snare”. What exactly is a snare? It is a hidden trap, that springs unexpectedly on the victim, with no hope of escape.
The original Greek render the coming as αἰφνίδιος:
Strong’s Concordance
aiphnidios: sudden
Short Definition: unexpected, sudden
Definition: unexpected, sudden.
The use of the word aiphnidios in the original Greek leaves no misunderstanding as to what the scripture is saying.
There is NO warning, NO series of events, NO indications that will remotely warn the world as to the soon return of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
This entire argument is presented in an effort to tell you that no one including the church can possibly know when THE RAPTURE which is occurring on the DAY OF THE LORD when He is coming. — No signs, no warning. This is very true of the whole world up unto the point of Messiah’s intervention in Isa. 63, the world is blind, but are you of the world. I told you this before, but I’m going to repeat it — Paul says of this very DAY that
Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. While they are saying, “ Peace and safety!” then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 NASB
Sister, this is all of the things contained in the definition of the word “snare” (sudden, unexpected, a snare) that Tribulation Rising says will cause this to be hidden for the world, yet you and I (the church) will know that it is coming. Why? How can we know? — because we are not blinded to the truth. THE DAY OF THE LORD has signs. Does that not mean that the signs telling of the Lords coming are the same signs for the Rapture.
The last thing I want to deal with with you on is your statement about the Matt. 24 rapture being the taking away of the wicked and not the rapture of the bride. Here is what you said:
“and the rapture of the wicked from off of the earth after the Tribulation (Matthew 13:39, 41, 49; 24:31; 25:31;Revelation 1:7-the wicked are in fear knowing they are about to be removed!) at the 2nd Coming before Christ sits on the Throne of David. Just a side note: I don’t believe the pre-trib rapture is going to be a hidden event.”
Let me just say to you that the pre-Trib rapture is hidden, because no one can even find it in scripture. There is no scripture stating that the Lord will return for us before Tribulation. The fear you mention is only seen after Jesus is present and His wrath known, and This presence comes only after the sun, moon and stars sign that Jesus told us about, which will follow the Tribulation of those days. His wrath is made known in Isa. 63. Messiah Stains His Garment. Isaiah 63 (Sept 25,2017), this is an article that I referred you to as part of the study on the second coming. He begins treading the wine press in these verses just before He returns to Rapture us.
But Tribulation Rising makes some erroneous conclusions about the judgment of the nations that I also want to speak to. So let’s deal with that Judgment. The sheep and goat Judgment. I assume that you are getting your rapture of the wicked from the Tribulation Rising site as well. And I’m not going to make a big deal over that point. In fact, there will be a gathering of the wicked to be cast into the lake of fire. But that is not the gathering that Jesus spoke of in Matt. 24. His gathering is of the elect. It is a Rapture. The question is — it the Rapture? — you have to decide, is it THE RAPTURE? I can’t decide that for you. I can only tell you why I have decided that to be the case after much study.
But there is one final error that I want to deal with from Tribulation Risings site. The judgment of the nations — they say there is only one question asked of the sheep by the Lord in this Judgment. They do impress us with their wisdom in figuring out God’s possible numbering system. They place this Judgment within the ten days of awe. They could be right on this timing for the this judgment? But what really does matter in this passage — they are wrong about.
So what really matters? These nations are not judged based on their acceptance of Jesus, but on works. Tribulation Rising says otherwise. Read the passage: they are judge based on what they did for Jesus brethren to help believers through the Tribulation. They are not those believers. If they had accepted Jesus they would be Jesus brethren and they would be standing in a different place. So who are they? — they are the unsaved nation’s that we and the Tribulation saints will rule over with Christ. And these nations who will enter into the kingdom prepared for them must go up year after year to offer sacrifice in the Temple at Jerusalem because they are still unsaved (Zach 14)
Sister your Tribulation Rising site has a lot of good information. I will be viewing it more, but I would avoid any site including my own if the word of God is being twisted there. You be the judge but please listen to the word when you do it. Jesus is the word, the truth, and the truth shall set us free.
And Then Messiah Shall Come 
I’m post trib too Jerry,
(just a little nudge for anyone out there afraid to speak that they are post trib too).
And howdy to you Jerry.
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Thanks Lee, good advise.
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Jerry, brother, I enjoyed the ongoing discussion about the End of the Age, but have to admit that for me this is a really difficult topic. You know that we disagree on some of these things. No need to go into that. I do agree that we will be gathered together to the Lord at His visible return.
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Interesting. I hadn’t detected the difference on the end of the age. We should discuss that if you want.
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Okay, Jerry!
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Are you laughing yet? I like your style. I think your issue may be the millennium as a future event? Let me just ask if you permit me? What do you see as the meaning of the portion of the prayer that Jesus taught us to pray. Thy kingdom come Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven? You don’t have to answer, but this just might result in a good discussion should you care to engage.
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Okay. Here we go! Jerry, you believe in the Lord Jesus’ Millennial Reign on David’s throne from Jerusalem, correct? This may be true, indeed yes! But do you believe that animal sacrifice will be offered either for sin or as a memorial in a Millennial Temple? I hope not because of this prophecy of Isaiah, 11:9 :
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord
As the waters cover the sea.
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Your off to a good start Maria. Don’t you just love talking about the things that God has promised. What can we do with this statement And on that day there shall be inscribed on the bells of the horses, “Holy to the Lord.” And the pots in the house of the Lord shall be as the bowls before the altar. And every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holy to the Lord of hosts, so that all who sacrifice may come and take of them and boil the meat of the sacrifice in them. And there shall no longer be a trader in the house of the Lord of hosts on that day.
Zechariah 14:20-21 do I believe that Isa. 11:9 is true yes, it will come about in that Day. That 1000 year day, which in the end will finally abolish all sin and all sacrifice, because then there will be no further need. So what do you think? After you tell me I will tell you why I think this is, based on Scripture. You and I believe that all of scripture is true. I know that, and believers together are being led into all understanding of this truth.
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Jerry, and all sacrifice has ceased.
Hebrews 10
12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool.
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Ok, great point. Do you believe that there will be a rebellion at the end of the millennium? Do you believe that the nations that Jesus judges to be worthy to enter the kingdom prepared for them are saved or unsaved?
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Maria, I’ve been thinking and praying on this. This is the answer I have received. Did Jesus sacrifice end that day all Temple sacrifice? No, does that make void His sacrifice? No. Does that statement then void the word of God in Zachariah and Ezekiel? No, when exactly are His enemies made His footstool? Food for thought.
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Jerry, to show future fulfillment of Zechariah and Ezekiel passages we can’t undermine the teaching of Hebrews. And we know that the curtain between the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies was torn from top to bottom when the Lord died. The new and living way was inaugurated and there cannot be a return to Temple sacrifice.
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Maria, I couldn’t agree with you more. Any true believer knows that sin has been paid for in full for the whole world, but does not that payment need to be accepted in order for it to have its cleansing effect. The Jews who continued alter sacrifices were blinded by their unbelief. I don’t know the answers to all the why’s that I have, and like you I have asked why Lord would you reinstitute something that in one sense became a vehicle of abomination to You? But I realized just that God has reasons beyond our finite understanding. Why did he send Abraham to the mountain with a command to sacrifice Isaac? I still don’t understand the why of His message to Abraham. I fully understand His actions, and I love the story, but I often wonder just how many of us your believers would have carried out what Abraham did, before You Revealed your true message? But I have determined to believe God, His word no matter if He slay me as Job said. And I know that I will not always understand at the time, but I truly believe that He will honor our belief and trust to us more understanding to if we humble ourselves in that way; than if we resist His word because we have Him figured out in our own understanding. Lean not unto your own understanding Maria, but delight yourself in His every word. His word is truth, His word was made flesh and dwelt among us. We have an eternity to get answers to our whys, and it will be more amazing than our finite minds can fathom. God bless you and yours in your journey. I pray that we all will trust Our Heavenly Father in these days when Satan will come to his own understanding of his imminent removal. And then his wrath against us will be much worse than all our “whys”. We need Jesus’ “the truth” to stand in the evil day. He is in every piece of our full armor. Remember that. God bless.
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Jerry,
This interpretation of the Millennium undercuts the finished work of Christ.
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I agree we can’t allow our understanding to do that. That’s why I keep digging. There is a good reason why both Zachariah and Ezekiel place these seemingly in the millennium.
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Okay, Jerry! You’ve asked two questions, “Do you believe that there will be a rebellion at the end of the millennium?” and “Do you believe that the nations that Jesus judges to be worthy to enter the kingdom prepared for them are saved or unsaved?”
First: Yes, a rebellion led by Satan, but I don’t know how to understand the Millennium itself. To gain perspective, I’m reading “The Four Main Millennial Views,” a chapter in These Last Days – A Christian View of History.
Second: The kingdom prepared for His sheep – the saved – from the foundation of the world cannot be a mere 1000 years.
Like you, I will continue to study these things, first in God’s Word, then with helps from the great cloud of witnesses. The Spirit leads His people into all truth together.
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I totally agree. When I answer I will answer with scripture.
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When we read this scripture frankly I am somewhat disturbed by a seeming contradiction. Read it and see if you get my point. First the reason for the distinction in the two groups is not Jesus based, these individuals don’t know that belief in Him is the basis of this Judgment. They don’t even know this Judgment of Nations is coming so they can’t be bible students. And they don’t even try to fake it showing that they know this part of scripture. Yet, they are told that they are righteous and to enter into eternal life. This is no where near the gospel message??? Are they saved or since they have not yet died, are they given opportunity to be saved? Read this and then the other verses and see if you understand where I’m coming from.
32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers,[f] you did it to me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:32,34-35,37,40-42,46 ESV
They have entered eternal life, and a kingdom prepared for them. Now consider Daniel an the Lords coming. Here the Antichrist beast which makes up much of the world is slain or destroyed.
As for the rest of the beasts (these beasts in Daniels vision represent the nations), their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
Daniel 7:12 ESV
My question is — Why?
And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations (these seem to be nations that have already been deceived by him before) any longer, (he no longer can deceive them until) until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:2-3,7-8,10 ESV
What we don’t know for sure is will these Nations of peoples who have never died and never received a new body then be judged at the great white throne Judgement. And if they are not found in the book of life, they will be thrown into the lake of fire. It would seem that if they are found in the book as having been saved they would then do one of two things — remain mortal and reproduce for eternity — I think there could be some support for procreation in eternity, but I’m not convinced. In the second scenario they might receive new bodies — no real scripture for this.
But why are these nations called the “righteous” and why are they pronounced for eternal life, unless, and this is where it gets tricky; these nations have already been granted entrance in verse 34. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
So, is the pronouncement of eternal life really for the third group of Jesus brethren who were helped by these sheep nations? This has come to be my answer to the why question, simply because the sheep nations will once again be deceived by the devil. Believers cannot be. This would not violate Jesus having put an end to our sins and the need for sacrifice in the case of all believers.
Now, this is why I can entertain sacrifice during the millennium. If these are not saved they need covering for sin. Let me know your thoughts after you finish your study. Ps. Do you mind if I post this as a separate post. I’ll need to modify it and remove your name? It may be interesting to see what responses are out there.
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Jerry, I’m reading. Will respond to your longer comment a little later.
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Thanks, I feel I’m on to something here, but there is still something missing.
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Jerry, I would be cautious, in that we aren’t to speculate about things not revealed.
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I am being cautious. I have rewritten this, and will run it past two pre-trib pastors, one being my brother, and one post-Trib pastor, and one who is undecided with a masters. I’ll share it with you here for further comment.
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Sounds GREAT!! Your humility is worthy!
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Here is the article that I’ve sent out for feedback.
Are the Mortal Nations Entering The Tribulation Saved?
When I read the following scripture, frankly, I am somewhat disturbed by a contradiction that has existed among scholars for decades. And the contradiction seems to be between the scriptures themselves. Notice I said “seems”. Scripture cannot contradict if it is God’s Word. Read this post and see if you get my point. We are going to be looking at the two groups of people involved in this Judgment — the sheep and the goats. But our emphasis is on the scriptures applying to the sheep. First, I want you to consider, that the reason for the distinction in the two groups of peoples representing the nations, is not based on what they did with Jesus as being the source of salvation. This judgement is works based. I propose that it is the righteousness of man that secured there entrance, but man’s righteousness is false. Stick with me. These individuals don’t possess knowledge of Jesus — that a belief in Him is the basis of this His Pronouncement. True salvation is never stated, and I don’t believe that it is implied. They don’t even know that this Judgment of Nations is coming for them, so they can’t be Bible students. And they don’t even try to fake it — revealing to all around that they know nothing of this passage of scripture that places them here. Yet, in the end one group is told that they are righteous (and to enter into eternal life), but are they guaranteed this life? This judgment is no where near an application of the gospel’s message??? Does Jesus know that? You bet He does. Are they saved or since they have not yet died, are they just being given opportunity to be saved based on their good works — their own righteousness? Read this incomplete passage on the subject, and then the other verses I list here. Read the whole passage if you like. It does not change the message, and see if you understand why God might be doing this.
32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world (God has a purpose for them, seemingly without salvation, to be in the kingdom). 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 37 Then the righteous (here in is the rub only in Christ is our righteousness made acceptable) will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 40 And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers (notice this does not say your brothers), you did it to me.’ 41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:32,34-35,37,40-42,46 ESV
They have entered eternal life, and a kingdom prepared for them. They occupy a prophesied place in The Millennium. They will be the nation’s ruled over by Christ, and The bride (which is also in scripture called His brethren, so we are standing there with Him) Now consider Daniel chapter 7’s teaching about this same time of the Lords coming. Here it is revealed that the Antichrist beast system which has make up much of the world is slain or destroyed. The goats would be included with these. But:
As for the rest of the beasts (these beasts in Daniels vision represent the nations see verse 3), their dominion was taken away, but their lives were prolonged for a season and a time. (Who are these? Are they these sheep nations? Are they not the nations over whom we will rule?)
Daniel 7:12 ESV
My question is — Why are they being prolonged for a season and a time if they are not nations to be ruled over by us?
And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations (these seem to be nations that have already been deceived by him before. Listen:) any longer, (he no longer can deceive them until) until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea (they have repopulated the earth during the Millennium). and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Revelation 20:2-3,7-8,10 ESV
What we don’t know for sure is will these Nations of individuals or peoples who have never died and never received a new body then be judged at the great white throne Judgement or is their judgment finished. I think they will be judged. And are they or are they not found in the book of life (remember the book of life is brought out at the Great white throne judgment. why?, (so it would seem that these must be there), and if they are not found in this book they will be thrown into the lake of fire. So why are they told to enter into eternal life? It would seem that if they are found in the book as having been saved during the Millennium they would then do one of two things — remain mortal and reproduce for eternity — I think there could be some support for procreation in eternity, but I’m not convinced and that’s not my subject. In the second scenario they might receive new bodies — no real scripture for this either. So in some things there is this mystery, because it is certain that for many they will not stay in this place that they have entered which is to the place of eternal life for eternity? Why? — because from among them are those who will subsequently rebel with Satan.
From this we know that these same sheep nations will once again be deceived by the devil so how then can some claim them to be saved? It seems that the continuous offer of eternal life was still in place for them because they had not yet rejected Christ or died. Further we know that the Revelation states that all who do not receive the Mark and worship the beast will be killed. So did they deceive the deceiver? Did they accept the mark in order to be able to help both themselves survive and while doing so help Jesus brethren to also survive?
God looks upon the heart could they have accepted the mark with no intention of worship? Could they be saved from death in this manner? They are not believers in Christ’s substitutionary work. Believers can neither accept the mark or be deceived at the end of the Millennium by Satan can they? If this were the case for them; then their being required to offer sacrifice, therefore by King Jesus would not violate Jesus substitutionary end to our need for sacrifice. He has put an end to our sins and the need for sacrifice in the case of all believers. Yet these are not yet believers, and there is sacrifice taught to be performed by them during the millennium ( Zachariah 14, and Ezekiel 36-38. This sacrifice during the millennium is a truth in God’s word, so it will be done. It also will one day cease because God’s word says it will.
Were these nations saved and given eternal life in Christ at the judgment of nations; then sacrifice could not be done without violating scripture. This controversy has brought a blight on Christianity ever since the Reformation, and this I believe is close to being its answer. It may need more work, but given the Scriptural truths involved it seems to explain without confusion those truths.
So, the probability of their lack of true salvation then is why one could entertain the need for sacrifice to occur during the millennium. If these nations are not saved they need a covering for their sin. Let me know your thoughts after you finish your study.
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If I thought that after Christ’s all sufficient sacrifice, sacrifice would need to be offered EVER AGAIN I would be hopeless. And the speculation about people reproducing forever? This cannot be true, as the saved will be as the angels are.
Jerry, do you have men to and with whom you are mutually accountable? What is your statement of faith?
Forgive me if I’m being too direct or overstepping my bounds.
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Your not overstepping. Here is my concern. I have studied all the main systematic theologies. And quite frankly all violate scripture in some areas. I agree with you 100% that sacrifice will never be offered for saved people ever again. This is why I believe that these nations are not saved. They will again at the Great white throne judgment be judged from the book of life. Remember they have not yet seen death when the millennium begins. Jesus seeks to save the lost sheep — even one. Sacrifices are taught for these nations. Read Ezekiel 38-40, and Zechariah 14. I know you believe God’s word, and this is what it says. I think you will like my redone article. Yes I am submitting it to my former pastors to whom I have my accountability. They are not all of the same theological bent. Remember the theologies all do not agree especially on end time stuff. God has I believe educated me through various denominations so I could see these discrepancies with scripture on the part of each. My agreement with them is that they make me aware of any Scriptural violation that they may see. This is also my prayer to the Holy Spirit. You do not need to feel hopeless when the scriptures prove to be true and not in conflict with one another. Keep that in mind. Our faith comes through hearing the truth of the word. Where the word seems to appear wrong it damages our faith. I know that you disagreed with me over free will versus predestination. One of those situations is not true to scripture as it is currently understood. This is why I dig into that situation. If God wants every man to be saved then I have a real problem with why He would predestine some to hell. This is why I determined in my mind that only those in Christ are predestined to salvation. And only those outside of Christ are predestined to hell. Otherwise why would God tell me that I was once a child of wrath if I were predestined to be saved. And that is the message for me before I was saved according to Ephesians. My predestination I have no problem with, which is in Christ, if I remain in Him. He says abide in me. Outside of that truth God has every right to intervene on the affairs of man and to pre-determined it even to the point of pre-determining one’s future based on his heart condition. Thus we have the situation with Esau. None of this affects my faith in an adverse way. But if there are conflicting statements within scripture one meaning the opposite of the other then my faith is affected. My concern is over building faith not tearing it down. Confusion in my mind tears it down. That’s my whole purpose is to illuminate confusion. Yes even between systematic theologies that disagree vastly at times. I appreciate your being concerned over Mayeye being true to Scripture. That certainly is my purpose. Thank you for your comment.
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Jerry, I appreciate what you have to say about salvation and the End of the Age, and your journey on the narrow way. Lord bless you as you strive to please our our holy, loving Lord!
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Thanks, same to you. God bless
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Jerry, I’ve read your draft post and have to repeat: if anyone at any time or age needs a covering for sin, there is only one sufficient eternal sacrifice provided – the Cross.
A question: How can the Lord pronounce the sheep blessed if they still will be subject to judgment and will lose the given Kingdom? It would be best to return to the historical treatment of Matthew 25 as THE judgment and to see the Lord’s teaching on the judgment as part of His teaching on the Kingdom, introduced by the parables of the Kingdom.
The confusion caused by dispensationalism has influenced all of us, sad to say.
You wrote “This controversy has brought a blight on Christianity ever since the Reformation.” What do you mean?
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I am referring to the fact that once the different denominations began to divide up and institute their on universities and create their on doctrinal statements and teachings became confusing.
Here is the problem with the historical understanding as I see it. Israels prophesied dispersion because of her rejection of her Messiah and her returning that Peter even spoke of in Acts 3 are left out of a pure historic understanding. Most of the Old Testament treatment of Israels future which we are included in as part of her covenants and promises are left out of the historical approach to Matthew 24
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Jerry I can’t see this. It seems to be one more accusation against the very Biblical but all too human Reformation Christians and the truths they returned to.
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Not sure I’m picking up on you reason for your concern. I know the reformation was good for the church, but in it was lost the need for unity and the seeking of and reliance on the Holy Spirits leadership in a unified development of doctrine. Now we are having to divide our time studying different views to put the puzzle back together. I’m sure this didn’t take God by surprise, but each of us has this built in bias that can be a deterrent to what we are looking for — the truth.
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Okay, Jerry! I can try to exp but not now. Have you heard back from the men your conferring with?
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One, who as expected is giving straight pre-trib answer and advice.
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Jerry, I will take another look at Zechariah and Ezekiel.
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Maria, I respect you as a true sister in the Lord. He is directing you path as you are attentive to His leading. We all are seeking for some answers.
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